SMARTLY Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Somebody hasn't put the wrong fuel in have they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Somebody hasn't put the wrong fuel in have they? No diesel pumps won't fit in petrol filler holes as they're bigger. These are the locations of the relays inside the car, looks like I'll have to remove some of the dash to get to them - http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection.php?block_01=17S6A01&block_02=B__1311&block_03=16058 Number 14 is the fuel pump relay and I think one of the number 12s is the main relay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 How does the pump sound in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 How does the pump sound in general. I don't know I'm checking that tonight, it was freezing last night so I left it. What should a fuel pump sound like when you turn the ignition on? Relays click so I'm ok with that. I found this so it's reading like there will be enough fuel in the lines to start the car but if the pump isn't running it immediately cuts out. What's confused me is they say it usually happens after a short run whereas the car hadn't been anywhere so it must be completely knackered. http://www.marklamond.co.uk/tech-honda/pgm-fi/main-relay/main-relay.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liner33 Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Have you cleaned the idle control valve , presuming its fuel injected ? If so wont have a choke, the warm up map is part of the general mapping so that wont be at fault it will likely to be a sensor so that the car doesn't know its cold or that its unable to correct the idle sufficiently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liner33 Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 If the fuel delivery was an issue it would idle fine but run out of fuel at higher rpm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liner33 Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Have you cleaned the idle control valve , presuming its fuel injected ? If so wont have a choke, the warm up map is part of the general mapping so that wont be at fault it will likely to be a sensor so that the car doesn't know its cold or that its unable to correct the idle sufficiently No I've never cleaned it as the car hasn't had idle issues and I'd need to remove coolant hoses, plus get a new gasket so left it. If it was dirty wouldn't there have been warning signs earlier on like an erratic idle, juddering and a CEL? I wouldn't have thought it would happen overnight unless the sensor had packed up completely. What would happen if I disconnected it and started the car, should it run but with a rough idle? At least that way I can rule it out. If the fuel delivery was an issue it would idle fine but run out of fuel at higher rpm From what I'm reading it seems to be pointing towards this relay, it will cause the car to stall as well if it's faulty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I've done a parts request with an online breakers for the IACV just in case it is that but can you buy these new anywhere that isn't Honda who want hundreds? Not really found any on ebay and searching Google for one just brings up threads about them not suppliers that actually sell them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Had a look tonight and the missus heard the fuel pump make a noise when I turned the ignition on, it lasted for 2 or 3 seconds so I guess that is normal when it's priming. I'm not sure if I found the main relay, it's pretty tight under the dash and I think I saw it but when I turned the ignition on there was no click, although I did hear a dull thud so that might have been it. I tried starting it again and it did the same, stalled immediately. I then thought I'd try starting it in neutral but it wouldn't start at all, same for when I put it back in park. The engine was turning over strongly, it was like there was no fuel. I didn't think to check if this inertia switch had tripped so I'll check that first but if it still won't start I don't think it's the IACV. I've checked the in-line filter and it's not one but rather a canister for the fumes so I can't see that being the issue. I've also plugged the laptop in and there are no codes. Really stumped now, I hope it's nothing serious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMARTLY Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 So in "P" it will start and revs strongly until you take foot off the accelerator and then stalls? Is that what is happening? Did you see if it would run long enough to warm up? Shouldn't it start in "P" or "N" but not "D"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Sorry typo, yes in park not drive. It was doing that so I started it in neutral and it stalled. Put it back in park and was going to start it again to try and warm the engine up but it wouldn't. It could be that switch has tripped so I'll try it tomorrow after I've reset it and see if it starts. Engine issues are one of the areas I'm not so good with, especially with no error codes to help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liner33 Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 It will have a fuel filter but may be in the tank , not all are service items You can clean the icv you don't need to replace it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 It will have a fuel filter but may be in the tank , not all are service items You can clean the icv you don't need to replace it Yes the filter is in the tank, Honda actually call it a strainer and it's supposed to last the life of the car - http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection_pfk.php?block_01=17S6A01&block_02=B__0300&block_03=15949 The other one I saw under the car is actually called a (charcoal?) canister and I don't think changing that would help. Would the IACV actually prevent the car from starting (assuming the fuel switch hasn't tripped) and even if it was cleaned they have a sensor as well so there's a chance that has gone? Whenever I've had to replace them or MAFs etc I have always had a CEL on the dash or the car still started and ran ok it was just abit rough. The Civic forum is useless, I've had no help on there at all, in fact alot of threads go unanswered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Is it running like this all the time now or just on start up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 It's not running at all ATM! To recap - the car had been fine up until Friday last week, apart from that incident 2 months ago but I don't think that's related. It wasn't used on Saturday and Sunday night when we tried to use it, it started but stalled immediately. In total it was started and stalled around 6-7 times and if I held the revs it stayed running until I let go. It started again last night, only the once and then stalled but now it won't start at all. I think I had better bring the battery in and give it a charge, this can't be doing it any good and although the engine was turning over strongly I guess there is a chance it doesn't have enough juice to start it. So frustrating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 It just sounds fuel related... If there was a misfire then electrical would be suspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Well yes it does seem to be fuel related, which is why I thought it might be this pump relay but then if the missus could hear the pump (I couldn't) going when the ignition was turned on that suggests it's actually ok. Having said that I did read the relay should click 3 times, once when the ignition is turned on, once when the CEL goes out and once when the engine is started. Google is bringing up alot of results for the older Civic's and those in the US so I'm not 100% sure if that applies to ours. The issue with the pump relay seems to be during hot weather with the common fault being dry soldering joints. I'm not sure what else I can check test now, I'll have another look on Thursday when it's light, I can't see much with a torch in the dark and then I'll have to call someone out. How much is a mobile mechanic likely to charge for fault finding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 It's an open quote for a call out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMARTLY Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 If really is meant to click then put your finger on it and you should feel a slight vibration If the battery is turning the engine over at a fair rate of knots then that won't stop it starting. Mobile mechanic is going to be £70+ per hour down there I'd say. Phone a couple up and ask and also ask what diagnostic tools they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liner33 Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Would the IACV actually prevent the car from starting (assuming the fuel switch hasn't tripped) and even if it was cleaned they have a sensor as well so there's a chance that has gone? Whenever I've had to replace them or MAFs etc I have always had a CEL on the dash or the car still started and ran ok it was just abit rough. The Civic forum is useless, I've had no help on there at all, in fact alot of threads go unanswered No the icv will stop the car idling , my next port would be the crank sensor , if it's priming then it's probsbly getting fuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2IM Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 If you are completely stuck Rich I can come over and have a look. If no luck we could maybe call the AA out as I am a member. Its the member covered not the car. So could log it that your car wont start. Think I get 5 call outs in a year FOC and only used one on the old Civic when that wouldn't start! (Battery) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 It's an open quote for a call out.... I thought as much. If really is meant to click then put your finger on it and you should feel a slight vibration If the battery is turning the engine over at a fair rate of knots then that won't stop it starting. Mobile mechanic is going to be £70+ per hour down there I'd say. Phone a couple up and ask and also ask what diagnostic tools they have. I'm still not sure I found the right relay last night for the fuel pump, the Honda parts diagram doesn't make it clear, which side of the dash it's on. The ones I thought they were didn't vibrate at all, I was touching them while turning the ignition on. I'm wondering if it's possible for the fuel pump to prime even with a faulty relay or maybe it's working to prime it but not pump the fuel if they work in stages. Would the IACV actually prevent the car from starting (assuming the fuel switch hasn't tripped) and even if it was cleaned they have a sensor as well so there's a chance that has gone? Whenever I've had to replace them or MAFs etc I have always had a CEL on the dash or the car still started and ran ok it was just abit rough. The Civic forum is useless, I've had no help on there at all, in fact alot of threads go unanswered No the icv will stop the car idling , my next port would be the crank sensor , if it's priming then it's probsbly getting fuel I did think about the crank sensor but the car hasn't displayed any of the usual symptoms and surely I'd get a CEL if that had gone. If you are completely stuck Rich I can come over and have a look. If no luck we could maybe call the AA out as I am a member. Its the member covered not the car. So could log it that your car wont start. Think I get 5 call outs in a year FOC and only used one on the old Civic when that wouldn't start! (Battery) That was going to be my next idea, upgrade the RAC to home start and get them out to take a look. I've never needed it but when I had to call them once for the Mondeo I just towed the car 1/4 mile down the road and called them! Can't tow an auto though! But if you don't mind me using yours that would be great Might hopefully give me an idea of what's wrong then, although I'm not sure how long they usually spend looking for faults. If they offered to recover it to a garage I'm not sure where to take it either, I've only ever used WIM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2IM Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 I think the cover allows for recovery to a garage of the AA's choice or your own if its no further. I always use Japex as you know but the AA might be able to let you know what the issue is or even fix it. Ill whatsapp you to sort it out mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Cheers mate I assume you have relay cover as well so they should recover the car to anywhere you want it? If it's just roadside then they take it to the nearest garage. Although it'll be abit pricey (as they use genuine parts) I was thinking of using Japex for the cambelt change so going there might be a good idea, the only thing with them is the waiting time for them to work on the car. Always at the wrong time though, when this happened on Sunday we had just ordered all the blinds for the house so I'm hoping this isn't going to get expensive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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