bojcistv Posted December 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 No I haven't driven another Mondeo but I have few friends who owns it and I will ask them to drive it on highway. I don't know about those design issues but somehow I think it is not that that type of mistake or failure. Steering wheel behavior depends somehow on temperature and much less on road surface. Now the steering wheel shake is pretty tinny and it is hard to feel it but there is that "floating" like issue on 120-140 km/h where all car vibrate. I don't know how to describe it more precisely even on my native language. My friend mechanic tried the car and said the vibration is there definitely but he has no idea what that could be. We drove the car with mounted another wheels and Michelin Energy tires from my friend Mondeo (by the way wheels are OEM Ford) and that vibrations still were there. Looks like my suspension miss to pick so called natural harmony vibration of the wheel on that certain speed only. I am wondering if ball joints on lower arm are culprits since I found on talkford forum that some people changed that no matter mechanics told them they are rock solid. Allegedly their design don't allow easy and common type diagnose (to put the pry bar between hub and lower arm and test them that way) since they can show perfect rock solid condition whilst on the car but when you change them everything is quite different. Also, I don't know if the ball joints can cause that type of behavior like is causing steering wheel shake or judder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 Other than the vibration there's no change in the handling, is that correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted December 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 Everything is just fine in every aspect of driving expect that "floating  feeling between 120/140 kmh and that annoying  vibration through whole car. Starts under the feet and then "travel" through whole car. Annoying....so annoying.... I am going to avoid highways and driving car on that speed. It is so sad and frustrating I can't solve it more than year and till now I have changed almost whole front suspension (but steering rack). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMARTLY Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 Think I would have part exchanged it by now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 I may have missed this if it's already been mentioned but have you: Â Checked or replaced the inner cv joints/bearings? Checked the subframe bolts are tight and the captive nuts have not sheared off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 The inner cv joints have been done, not sure about the bearings though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted December 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 Thanks for the inputs people. So, both wheel bearings were changed than back in 2010. when I bought the car (I put OEM made SKF ones). Both Inner CV joints changed too, on the right side I changed even and tripod bearings inside the CV joint so you might say it is like brand new joint, as well as I put brand new the outer CV joint on that side. Since I bought new front tires (Conti TS 850) two weeks ago I will try to re-balance them at another tire specialist and see will it affect on vibrations but I am in doubt it will. I read bunch of posts related to the differential or gearbox trouble on this car but I haven't found such vibrations could have been caused by that, or if it were it would be bounded with the humming or similar type of noise and i don't have any of that noise. Car is rock solid and steering wheel is as tight as it is possible. Very direct and smooth almost as on the sports car excerpt on 120/140 km/h range where everything is shaking on very high frequency and those "floating" like feeling is present. I remember that before we had changed hydrobushings on the lower arms wheels were judder so bad on the jacked car which is now not a case. I repeated that type of experiment and found car is calm and smooth as it should be. Not even slight a sign of vibration under any circumstances. But on the road vibs are there and I can't get rid of them. Maybe I should check rear end of the car and suspension elements cause I read some people had this type of vibs cause of worn joints on the rear side of the vehicle (it wasn't Ford Mondeo in the issue but some other car as I remember who has similar multilink type of rear suspension)? What do you think? Is it possible that those vibs are transferred through the floor and seats to the steering wheel?    @ RichChecked the subframe bolts are tight and the captive nuts have not sheared off?  Everything is ok with subframe bolts. Checked many times as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyelcomb Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 Fully checking rear suspension is a good point. Â Years ago one of the Brands Hatch Race School XR3is got dumped into a gravel trap and subsequently suffered massive steering wheel shake. They changed just about everything at the front to no avail despite me sticking my oar in and asking if they had checked the rear. No, No they said - its definitely from the front. Â But it wasn't - a rear wheel had a great lump of mud & gravel spread half way round the inside rim and once that was cleaned up all was well. Â Not saying yours is a rear wheel balance issue as I think you've checked that but what about the rest of the rear suspension? Both dampers good? No rear wheel bearing play or high spots? Rear bushes? Â Just clutching at straws... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted December 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 Thanks for advice Andy! I changed rear shocks two years ago since they started to knock so bad during the cold days it was unbelievable. I checked rear bushes, changed stabilized bar bushings as well, stabilizator strut and that's it. We didn't find anything wrong on the rear but as I remember we didn't check rear arm and linkage at all. And just to mention few month ago I was at Hunter's GSP 9700 machinery who is able to do so called dynamic balancing and they found nothing wrong with the tires on the rear. Â Today happened something interesting while I was coming back home. Before I got on the highway I decided to check tire pressure and instead of 2.3. bar, which is manufacturer's recommendation for front wheels , I set the pressure on the 2.1 bar. I didn't have any reason for that but tried to see what will happen. And vibs were decreased!? They are still there but much less that it used to be. Something is still not good but what ever it is that is been compensated by lower tire pressure! Very strange?!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 7, 2013 Report Share Posted December 7, 2013 How odd indeed...... Why would the tyre pressure suppress the vibration? Once again it points to the wheels/ tyres since no other component mechanical or not knows what you did to the pressures  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted December 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2013 I don't have any idea why is it like that Tony. Doesn't sound logical but.....There is explanation, though but till the moment I don't find what is in issue it will be something "from the other side..." of reality.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Can you confirm again that there's no noise when the vibration starts and the vibration is still there when you take a sweeping corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted December 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Definitely no noise on the "vibration" speed. Everything is quite normal but that strange vibration. Vibration is bit increased when the steering wheel is moving few centimeters either right or left but only on that 120/140 km/h speed. I will try to be clear. On the way home I am driving to the new highway and that road is bit lean in the left so if I want to drive in the straight line I have to do tinny steering corrections occasionally since that road leaning pull the car in the left. Those corrections are just two or so cm in the right and while doing that I have feeling vibrations are increased than they are when I don't do that. Once again sorry for my English since I am not native speaker and maybe I used some expressions that you don't understand or sounds silly or funny to you . Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Please don't worry about your English, i'm not to good at it and i am a native..... Â On the steering column there are one or two couplings, have these been checked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted December 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Ok Tony thanks for that. I checked those couplings on the steering wheel column too. Very well known and documented problem on the Mondeo Mk3 but there is everything fine. No plays at all. Somehow natural wheel hop frequency is interfere with the suspension in the way it can't be picked up so maybe cause of it tire pressure has some connection with it since bit more deflated tire has less frequency or can help to suspension to take bit more vibrations than the tire is inflated on more pressure? I am not sure about it just building any theory by whom I could get some light on the trouble pit.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 So there's no noise, no handling issues but a vibration at a governed speed..... It has to be due to a rotational mass. Hummmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted December 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 Yes completely illogical. I tested the car on the jack and it seems those vibrations could be noticed only on the road under some load or so. I thought about rear springs since those are the only ones things I haven't checked yet and it is possible vibrations can be passed from rear to the front end as well. I found some cases where people have driven their Mondeo-s for years with broken springs neither seeing nor feeling anything odd (since they broke on the very top near the top strut mount). It is very hard to check whether is it gone or not since they are placed in some source of the pit and you can't see nor put the hand inside in order to feel whether everything is ok or not. I tried to made photo but it is impossible to see anything. Could it be possible that springs are maybe not broken but decrease their, let's say that way, spring ability so they are not able to deal with that certain frequency or so.... Also, as you mentioned those rotational mass, I thought is it possible that natural wheel hop frequency on that speed be transferred to the engine bay where some mounts can't pick up those vibs and somehow they are get pass toward steering system? But I didn't notice anything unusual with the engine mounts. They are not worn in any way and don't have any sign or symptom of being on their way to fail. I know it sounds impossible but hey till now I've shot all "possible" reasons.  Rotational mass on that speed range only, while driving on the road under load (not while car is on the jack), no matter what road surface is, indicate that trouble is with: wheel, rim, drive shaft (drive train) and gearbox itself (differential to be more precisely). Something there is not balanced or being worn? I am running out with ideas...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 No i don't think the rear spring would be an issue unless dramatically sagged/ broken..... Does the long drive shaft have a two piece balance weight on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted December 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Yes it has the balance weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 Has it moved at all and if the shaft was replaced it the weight in the right place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted December 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 No, the balance weight on shaft couldn't be moved on it. I tried to move it since I have one drive shaft removed in my garage and it grips like it is glued on it. On the new shaft I assembled there is weight on it and also can't be moved on it. I didn't see if that weight be placed on some other place on the drive shaft and I don't think it has moved on it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 Isn't it a two peace iron balance weight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted December 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 No it is made by rubber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted December 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 I see it now..."made of rubber"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted January 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 Hey guys what do you think about this http://www.vibratesoftware.com . Some guy in USA made an software by whom mechanic is capable to determine vibrations origin. It is very interesting. They provide as an example some vibration chart  which looks like and when you match vibration you measured on the board with engine RPM you should get intersect somewhere on the chart which would point the origin of the vibration. Although chart made for the 4WD vehicle with 6 cylinders engine I tried to used it in my own case calculating where vibrations on the car shows up on 120 km/h, which speed give a wheel 16,6 Hz frequency or 996 RPM while the engine has 2041 RPM. I didn't measure vibrations on the steering wheel neither I did it on the board since I can't find any vibration analyzer device around here (no one ever heard for something like EVA device here). I presume the vibration frequency is the same as the frequency of the wheel since the vibration is speed related and when I did that i got intersect on chart above somewhere around T1 or 1st order tire speed related red line. Not exactly on the line but bit above it much more closer than to T2 red line. I have done countless tire balancing till now but I will do it again and if wouldn't be corrected by it according to vibrate software diagnose i  have trouble with the differential......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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