bojcistv Posted October 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 I shot all logical and books based arguments for vibrations, so only ones "from dark side" arise. I have up/down vibs through all car and on certain speed they are increased and somehow tuned up with the front wheels spinning frequency and turn to be very noticeable. Repeat, I don't have any steering wheel wobble like driving on unbalanced wheels, but my seats are wobble like rear wheels aren't balanced (although they are). Vibs source is under the car, like in the car center of gravity and on certain speed is moving toward front end. I am assure the cause is mechanical not bound with the tires but in the case of Mondeo everything is possible, even and sliding tires on rims....any way I decided to change lower gearbox mount so will see if it will improve anything (I doubt it will since it has no any connection with vibs while driving on highway speeds). It is broken any way and sooner or later it will start to knocking under the car.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickT Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 Thanks bojcistv. It's not that I can't spell, it's my big fingers on my mobile phone! Is there a place near you that does wheel balancing with the wheel on the car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted October 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 You are welcome Nick! I have trouble with my big fingers and tiny keyboards on the mobile phones too but luckily I own one prehistoric mobile phone with calling and SMS-ing as primary functions on it so (it has pretty big buttons on the keyboard) not like nowadays smartphones which are everything else but phones! Any way I don't have any shop with balancing wheels while they are on the car. Few people asked me whether is around here something like that but unfortunately there is not any. I don't know if the culprit could be steering rack since that is the only thing hasn't been checked so far on the suspensions and drive train. Tony mentioned some temp influence on suspension work and I must say vibs are lesser while I am on my way to work in the morning then they are in the afternoon when is pretty much warmer then in the mornings. I will continue to solve the puzzle since I am not the person who will give up so easy.... Thanks for advises and tips... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted October 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 I marked the tires yesterday like NickT advised me few days ago. I think marks on two tires moved few mm. Not much in fact, it could be just my fault cause I didn't do proper marks align on them since I used waterproof pencil not chalk and some deviations from there is possible. Any way I saw this article https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftoyotires.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Frimslip.pdf where this rim slip is possible to occur even on every day driving car not just on race cars during the track days. Maybe it will explain why I am feeling this unbalanced wheels only few days or weeks after wheels had been balanced? So it is possible for wheels in that case to unbalance by themselves cause of rim slip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 I think you need to give it a few more days just to be sure, but i think you are getting somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liner33 Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Is rim slip common then? Used to have a real issue with it on the dragbike for obvious reasons hence this fix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted October 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Yes I saw that way of preventing tire slip on rim but as you stated it should be done only on the race cars or something like that not on every day mid-size family sedan like is diesel engine equipped Mondeo! Any way this tires were mounted on rims few month ago (although i wasn't near the guy who actually did it I know mechanic here use to put mount lubricant on tire/rim in very excessive way or too much according to Toyo tires TSB) so I can't believe it is moving (slipping) on the rim after so much time passed!? I will see if it will move in any direction but it is very interesting and maybe explains why i couldn't get my wheels balanced or why they do unbalanced right after I am getting out of garage.... Thanks for inputs guys! If I solve this damn thing with vibrations I am taking first flight to England to buy you enough beer! (I have never been there so it worth to check your pubs and taste some famous beers!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Additives pasted on the bead like bead-seal or even puncher repair glue will stop or at least reduce any slipping...... By the way this was a great problem on the drive wheels on lorry's when the tubeless tyre evolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickT Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 I'd never say no to beer The tyre rim slip thing has been covered on WIM on another post before by Tony or we talked about it one time. For some reason I remembered it and a fix was some black adhesive bond that was usedon an alloy wheel rim. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Yes that was bead-seal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted November 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Tony said: The vibration is obviously a chassis frequency saturation point and i can understand different levels of saturation in the bushings -V- ambient temperature and this will add inconsistency toward the complaint regarding when the vibration starts. Still is the same story at my case. Today I got pair of new Continental TS850 on my front end as the winter is on its way here in Bosnia. Regardless that my 120 km/h vibrations are still where they are all this time. I was wondering what else could I change on my suspension I came across on this statement Tony did. I can't remember if I've even read it or I just passed it through my head and hadn't stay inside....such thing is interesting since I have feeling the vibrations are dependable on the temperatures and it gets me to the hydro bushings again. I changed them last year in october and I just don't want to think they failed again after only 20.000 km on lower arms. But...I just can't see anything else but that bushings in the vibrations-temperature-certain speed on wheels, formula? Any idea? And Tony would be so kind to get some detailed explanation of your quoted statement since I don't know much about chassis frequency saturation in the bushings...Does it means my bushings are failed again or.....I don't know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 24, 2013 Report Share Posted November 24, 2013 It's all to do with the bushing compliance -V- temperature.... Thing is if the issue is bushings there should be visible signs of deterioration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam_r Posted November 24, 2013 Report Share Posted November 24, 2013 could this not be drive shaft related? if bushing and tyres have been done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted November 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2013 Both, the left and right drive shaft have been changed. And I changed even bearings on the inner CV joint spider and....nothing.... On 120 km/h front end of the car become how to say....floating...imprecise..i am feeling vibrations on my feet...steering wheel doesn't wobble like the front wheels aren't balanced but i am feeling vibrations through it. I think like I have some play in lower arms but I don't have characteristic clunk sound from there.Just more soundly crossing over the the road imperfections. Mechanic couldn't find any plays in suspension and he said it is rock solid but he felt vibs I am talking about and he doesn't have idea what could else it could be. Vibs occurs between 120 and 130 km/h. So far, on front suspension I have changed almost everything but lower arms (however I had changed hydro bushings on them) and tie rods. No visible improvement. It's all to do with the bushing compliance -V- temperature.... Thing is if the issue is bushings there should be visible signs of deterioration. Hydro bushings don't have visible signs of leaking or deterioration. I had changed them last year.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 Not being funny or anything but how sound is the engine and gearbox? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted November 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 Engine and gearbox seems to be as on the first day i bought the car. I didn't notice any changes. Do you have something specific where you are pointing at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 I was thinking gearbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted November 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 Gearbox is quite fine. I changed the transmission fluid inside and he is much much smoother in gear changes. I can't get gearbox in the light since vibration starts between 120 and last to the 140 km/h. So as I know it depends on the speed not about engine and input revolutions in gearbox. Further, there are no vibs when I was jacked the car and run the wheels on that speed. Vibs are in floor, steering wheel and seats mostly, in very high frequency, I can see steering wheel shimmy or wobble in pretty high frequency and i am feeling steering system isn't tight during that period of vibrating like something will drop of the steering or suspension but only on the road and not on the jack. Also somehow it vary related to the outter temp. Could it be vibs from rear somehow is transferred to the front end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 28, 2013 Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 Has any work been done that changed the level of vibration, good or bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted November 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 By now I have changed shocks (no improvement), hydro bushings on lower arms (some improvement made), drive shafts on both sides (improvement over vibrations under the acceleration), bearing in the inner CV joint changed (no improvement), bought new wheels (no improvement), bought new tires (no improvement), wheel balancing and alignment countless of times (no improvement)... Something makes my chassis got in resonance when hit 120 km/h till the 140 km/h and by that I am feeling vibs under my foots, through steering wheel and in seats and somehow sloppy and floating like drive feeling. It is depends on the temp somehow while on some temps it is showing more and in another ones it doesn't show at all. Maybe DMF, God forbid? I wrote somewhere it can cause that types of vibs but also some side effects should occur... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 28, 2013 Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 And you have replaced the strut top mounts haven't you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted November 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 Yes I had changed top strut mount on the left side in the 2010 but back than I didn't have any vibrations issues. Mechanic checked mounts few month ago and he didn't find anything suspected. Could it be related for kind of vibration I am dealing with? I was observing steering wheel today while got back home on highway and on the 120 km/h wheel is shimmy on very high frequency like wheels aren't balanced but in very very low rate. Maybe few grams only. Sure there is "floating" like suspension in the 120-140 km/h speed interval. Also I noticed that vibs shows and disappear during the constant 120 km/h speed!? This car has either some gremmlins or very simple explanation for this behavior. Can the lower arm be culprit for this, ball joint more precisely even though we can't see any play in it?! Once again Tony thanks for your efforts in trying to help me out whit this. I am really thinking it will be precious experience for many Mondeo owners (and for many more drivers as well) since I have found this vibrations trouble I read millions of pages on bunch of forums and it is shame that so many people are faced with silly vibrations that can't be solved for years..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 29, 2013 Report Share Posted November 29, 2013 Are the tyres still moving on the rims? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted November 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 I changed the rims ( steel ones) and tires as well. Now winter ones are on the car. Brand new Conti TS 850 on the front end and some cheaper on the rear. I have very high frequency steering wheel wobble (left/right) between 120 and 140 km/h. It is not so easy to see but my hands are shaking. Odd thing is that when I do a slight turning left or right (changing the lane on highway) steering wheel wobble increase. Like something amplify them. Like balancing issue as it is wheels out of balance for a one or two grams or even less. I am wondering how it is possible to feel that low unbalance mass. If it is that issue after all....I really don't know.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 Have you driven another Mondeo just to see if it's the nature of the beast? Reason i say this is some cars have inherent issues built into the design, i'm not suggesting they are right but i am suggesting sometimes it's natural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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