Rich Posted October 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Have you tried A plan ? Filled their online form out, just waiting for a call back from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 What a faff! Just spoke to A Plan and they've dropped my best quote by about £20, plus £50 off the excess. So that's £113 off my renewal price so far. Got Keith Michaels to try next but funny how everyone else says they'll match your best quote! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMARTLY Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 It's going the right way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Keith Michaels were almost as expensive as my renewal and they can't get it down! As long as Sky match my cheapest quote, with the same excess I'll just renew with them. Not sure who else to try, think I've done all the modified specialist. Did some online quotes as well for a modified car and they were £700 to £1,000! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMARTLY Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Did you do Adrian Flux, can't be bothered to look back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Filled their online form out, just waiting for a price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 Anyone think it's too damp to paint the calipers now? Didn't seem to dry out until very late morning today and I'm not sure if that will affect the hammerite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMARTLY Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 Hammerite should be OK I'd say. Look on the tin - I think it dries quite quickly. Maybe not in the frost though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipercar93 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Could always throw them in the oven =) Hammerite takes ages to cure I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 I don't want to remove them though. I think I might leave it until next year now, unless we get an Indian summer for a week or 2 like last year. It looks like I'm still having mpg issues though, I'm halfway through the tank (on the gauge) and only done 150 miles, which is about the same as before. I need to sort a ground connection out still and clean the throttle body, then look at the O2 sensor. I've just bought that OBDII reader so will use that when it arrives to see if there are any issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 Insurance is sorted, my current insurer met A Plans price so to save hassle switching I just renewed with them. I did email a couple of companies I was dealing with and they said they couldn't beat the price, it was very competitive or they just matched it. The thing is I've had messages from both Greenlight and A Plan asking if I want to discuss the quotes further. I'm wondering if I could've got more off now, but I don't have time to ring several companies several time who only knock a few quid off each time! Although I had a figure in my head of what I wanted to pay and the price I got is less than that, it's also £100 less than what I paid last year so it's still a result Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 What do we make of these readings and can anyone tell me about the O2 sensor ones and if they seems to be working ok, if you can tell? These readings were after a slow drive and with the engine up to temperature. O2 sensors after a fast drive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liner33 Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Looks like the lambda is working ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Cheers...can you explain what the reading mean though? I obviously know the first numbers are the voltage but what does the fuel trim mean, does this adjust the amount of fueling based on the voltage readout? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipercar93 Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Cheers...can you explain what the reading mean though? I obviously know the first numbers are the voltage but what does the fuel trim mean, does this adjust the amount of fueling based on the voltage readout? Yep, That's how the ECU uses the O2 sensor to adjust fuel. If the voltage isn't at the point the ECU wants it will add or subtract fuel relative to air volume, in other words Changes the AFR (Air Fuel Ratio) so the voltage is in the pre-defined range the ECU wants. The range changes depending if your are in closed loop or open loop operation. It's not as simple as looking at the voltage and saying 'it's good'. The ECU will intentionally fluctuate your AFR to see if the O2 is operating correctly. What can happen is the O2 will become dirty, and while being able to provide voltages within the range the ECU wants, it will 'lag' and will not have the response rate needed to keep the engine operating efficiently. What can happen too is a lower total output voltage. The ECU usually has pre-set parameters for how bad is 'too bad' and the dummy lights will turn on when these conditions are triggered. Link about Lambda Sensors In your case you will have to find out what Toyota deems the acceptable range and response rate and then datalog the sensor output voltage and see where you fall into the range that Toyota set. I suspect that while the sensor is still 'acceptable' you are losing a bit of efficiency. I doubt it would be too much though, otherwise you would have an error coming from the ECU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Cheers, so as that's a plus percentage it's adding more fuel? Would recording the data over a drive be more accurate? I'll have to try and find some software that can record live data. How can I find out the range Toyota state it should be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipercar93 Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Cheers, so as that's a plus percentage it's adding more fuel? Would recording the data over a drive be more accurate? I'll have to try and find some software that can record live data. How can I find out the range Toyota state it should be? Yes it's saying that it's adding 3.1% fuel in the short term, but overall the PCM is taking away 10% fuel. To be honest I would let the computer tell you if they are bad, I wouldn't know where you would get the info offhand and it would just cost you more money to get a datalogger. Here is a rough guide, most O2's operate roughly the same. "Testing O2 sensors that are installed The engine must first be fully warm. If you have a defective thermostat, this test may not be possible due to a minimum temperature required for closed loop operation. Attach the positive lead of a high impedence DC voltmeter to the Oxygen sensor output wire. This wire should remain attached to the computer. You will have to back probe the connection or use a jumper wire to get access. The negative lead should be attached to a good clean ground on the engine block or accessory bracket. Cheap voltmeters will not give accurate results because they load down the circuit and absorb the voltage that they are attempting to measure. A acceptable value is 1,000,000 ohms/volt or more on the DC voltage. Most (if not all) digital voltmeters meet this need. Few (if any) non-powered analog (needle style) voltmeters do. Check the specs for your meter to find out. Set your meter to look for 1 volt DC. Many late model cars use a heated O2 sensor. These have either two or three wires instead of one. Heated sensors will have 12 volts on one lead, ground on the other, and the sensor signal on the third. If you have two or three wires, use a 15 or higher volt scale on the meter until you know which is the sensor output wire. When you turn the key on, do not start the engine. You should see a change in voltage on the meter in most late model cars. If not, check your connections. Next, check your leads to make sure you won't wrap up any wires in the belts, etc. then start the engine. You should run the engine above 2000 rpm for two minutes to warm the O2 sensor and try to get into closed loop. Closed loop operation is indicated by the sensor showing several cross counts per second. It may help to rev the engine between idle and about 3000 rpm several times. The computer recognizes the sensor as hot and active once there are several cross counts. You are looking for voltage to go above and below 0.45 volts. If you see less than 0.2 and more than 0.7 volts and the value changes rapidly, you are through, your sensor is good. If not, is it steady high (> 0.45) near 0.45 or steady low (< 0.45). If the voltage is near the middle, you may not be hot yet. Run the engine above 2000 rpm again. If the reading is steady low, add richness by partially closing the choke or adding some propane through the air intake. Be very careful if you work with any extra gasoline, you can easily be burned or have an explosion. If the voltage now rises above 0.7 to 0.9, and you can change it at will by changing the extra fuel, the O2 sensor is usually good. If the voltage is steady high, create a vacuum leak. Try pulling the PCV valve out of it's hose and letting air enter. You can also use the power brake vacuum supply hose. If this drives the voltage to 0.2 to 0.3 or less and you can control it at will by opening and closing the vacuum leak, the sensor is usually good. If you are not able to make a change either way, stop the engine, unhook the sensor wire from the computer harness, and reattach your voltmeter to the sensor output wire. Repeat the rich and lean steps. If you can't get the sensor voltage to change, and you have a good sensor and ground connection, try heating it once more. Repeat the rich and lean steps. If still no voltage or fixed voltage, you have a bad sensor. If you are not getting a voltage and the car has been running rich lately, the sensor may be carbon fouled. It is sometimes possible to clean a sensor in the car. Do this by unplugging the sensor harness, warming up the engine, and creating a lean condition at about 2000 rpm for 1 or 2 minutes. Create a big enough vacuum leak so that the engine begins to slow down. The extra heat will clean it off if possible. If not, it was dead anyway, no loss. In either case, fix the cause of the rich mixture and retest. If you don't, the new sensor will fail." Link You don't need to use a multimeter, just use your scan-tool and watch the voltage, if it changes rapidly as described then it's healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 So in the long term where it says it's taking 10% of fuel away is that data recorded by the ECU over a period of time, i.e. between each reset? I'll try that test and see what happens with the voltage, cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipercar93 Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 So in the long term where it says it's taking 10% of fuel away is that data recorded by the ECU over a period of time, i.e. between each reset? I'll try that test and see what happens with the voltage, cheers No idea TBH, each ECU is different. Here's a link for some basics on fuel trims and how it fits into the O2. http://stealth316.co...i_fuel_trim.pdf I'm making this more complicated than it needs to be, but there's only one way to learn =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liner33 Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 If the O2 sensor is faulty the Ecu will enter open loop , the data readout states the ecu is in closed loop mode If you doubt the O2 sensor just replace it they are service items Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Just read what open and close loop is, that makes sense. The sensor must be ok but I'm gonna try and get some software to record live data. Was down WIM earlier and had the brakes bled again, they got the rear nipple open this time and it's alot better now, feels sharper. Sorted the seat bolt hole out with a tap, luckily it repaired it ok and when I took all the bolts out to remove the seat I noticed one of the others was starting to strip it's thread. Luckily the guy who sent me the new bolts put 8 in the bag so got plenty of spares. Also had a geo check done as it was pulling left slightly and that's been sorted. Thanks guys Over the weekend I started replacing the gear link bushes with some solid brass ones I bought. One came off ok but the other didn't, the metal insert is seized on the pin so going to try again this weekend. With just the one bush replaced it's made alot of difference to the gear change, more positive feel and doesn't feel as notchy. Had a good blast going home from WIM and the car is feeling so much better overall now. Just a couple of more jobs to do, which are lift bolts and coolant change and it just needs a good detail. Hopefully nothing else will need replacing now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Just filled up and got 23.8 mpg, slightly better but not that much...the fuel gauge was deceiving! Gonna get some injector cleaner over the weekend to put in as well but I don't think there is anything else left for me to replace or clean now. The Civic does this kind of mpg with town driving as well but on a run it can hit nearly 40 mpg, mine doesn't even get to 30! I think the car will be going next year cos I could've got the Legacy GTB I wanted with the mpg I'm getting! But I think I'm gonna go back to diesel cos if I'm honest I'm actually missing the torque as well. There is no point getting a petrol turbo cos the mpg with town driving won't be much better. I had thought about getting a small engined car as I only really use it for work but the missus is moaning cos it means we'll have to use hers more when going out and putting the mileage on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liner33 Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Thats dreadful economy ,my Evo would do that around town Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 I'm convinced something isn't right with it cos the average mpg on the forum and fuelly is around 30. Would short journeys of 10 miles really make that much difference to ones of 20-30 miles? I've cleaned and replaced nearly everything I can think of apart from the O2 sensors but the data for those suggests they're working ok. I don't want to replace them on the off chance it is those and it's not. I got the T Sport over the Legacy GTB as I thought the economy would be better not having 2 turbo's bolted to the engine, how wrong was I!!! Although the Corolla is probably cheaper to maintain than the boxer engine? I'm thinking of selling the engine bay bling now to get some of the money back I've spent on the car and then have a good think about what I want. Last time I looked the Legacy insurance was too much but I'll have to check that again. If I change cars I'll either go for a diesel estate or a small petrol car, maybe the Toyota Yaris T Sport, which is a 1.5 and suppose to get about 35mpg around town. Only problem is the money for a new car is tied up in the Corolla so I'd have to sell that first, then I'm car-less for work! I'd imagine part exchanging it won't give me anywhere near what I'd want for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liner33 Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Your short trips will cripple the fuel economy , all engines use a lot more fuel when cold and modern petrol engines are mapped to add a lot more fuel to warm the engine up quickly from cold to reduce emissions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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