Hunter Results - BMW 335i - Something's not Right?

[khurmit]

I had my BMW 335i SE alignment done by WIM Chesham in June last year. Here are the results:

 

 

From this, I have a few Qs:

 

1) I paid a higher Fee as I was told the BMW has a lot of adjustment points. But looking at the results, it seems the Operator just left many things "within tolerance" and hasn't tried to hit the Target values using all the adjustability the car provides;

2) Front Cross Camber - that's a bit high isn't it? It's almost at the limit of tolerance;

3) Front cross caster - a bit high?

4) Front Caster & SAI - does BMW not have targets for these?

5) Track diff angle, Setback, Max steering lock weren't measured?

6) Why didn't I get the pretty printouts that show the car before and after, rather than the attached data printout?

 

I'm sure you're wondering WHY I am posting this right now!

 

Well, I originally became aware of WIM through the Lexus Owners Club, and TonyBones did a cracking job on my IS200 3-4 years back - in fact the current owner of that car (from Essex) tells me he's been back there too, based on my recommendation. Last year in June I went in for 2x front 19" Goodyears and the alignment but unfortunately Tony wasn't around. Someone else did the work, and you can see the results above.

 

Now I need 2x rears, and I'm hoping WIM will respond via this post to in order to retain a good customer who plans on using their services for the foreseeable future - I am a firm believer in WIM's dedication and sincerely hope they can restore my faith! As far as I can see, they are THE BEST and the operator may have been having a bad day. I won't pass judgement.....yet......

 

Am I just being paranoid?

[adam_r]

you need to host the PDF on an image hosting site... you cant directly upload things on to the forum.

 

your photobucket / imageshack for hosting

without that we /they cant offer much feedback on settings we cant see

[Rich]

Use tinypic to upload the file, you don't need to join - http://tinypic.com/

[parthiban]

Just to ask what might be a silly question, is there actually something wrong or are you just questioning the numbers on the report?

 

I just had our Merc done by Tony and some of the numbers are at the limit of the "tolerance" to fix the inner wear/handling issues I had - but at the end of the day I'm not too worried about the numbers, the most important part is that the car now feels fantastic and it has hopefully cured my tyre wear issues.

[khurmit]

Thanks Adam_r & E55EX_RACER! Here are my results:

 

http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q800/khurmit/335iHunterresults_zps65af570c.jpg

 

Parthiban - the problem is that I've lived with mildly-poor handling on my 335i since the alignment (but not as poor as before), when I was expecting to go from bad -> good.

 

When I began my quest to find a tyre fitter this week, I investigated what the alignment data meant, and realised I should have flagged this up straight away, rather than 8 months down the line. I expect better, hence why I go to WIM rather than any of the fitters listed on the "Alignmycar" website! Plus I don't use the 5% off voucher EVER, cos I reckon WIM deserve the price they charge (but unfortunately I'm questioning that from my last experience).

[parthiban]

Ahh ok, if the handling's been off then that makes more sense. Can't say much about the numbers but those are the same printouts I always get - what were you expecting, have you had something different previously?

[khurmit]

Yep - when I had my Lexus done, I got the printouts as shown on the "Alignmycar" website:

 

http://www.alignmycar.co.uk/WhatToExpect/hunterprintout

 

Not that this matters - they're just different means of displaying the same data, and I'm fine with that. The printouts aren't my primary concern at the mo, it's the data they are reporting!

[Rich]

I'm not sure what is adjustable on your car but what tyres are you using? They can effect how a car handles quite abit....is it tramlining, pulling, feel unstable etc?

 

I have to admit I do prefer those printouts myself, it's easier to read that way but the one above shows more data.

[khurmit]

All of the above! I'm on Goodyear Eagle F1 Assy2 19" front, and Assy1 on the rears - as mentioned the rears are running low though and I'm seeking out a new set of Assy2's as we speak. Camskill seems cheapest at the mo, but I'd still only buy from WIM if they were close (but the "Buy Tyres Online" link in the WIM website doesn't work https://www.blackboots.co.uk/order.php)

[Tony]

Hello Khurmit

1: The fee would have been consistent with adjustments made whereas BMW charge the full fee whatever corrections are made.

2: Achieving a perfect cross camber would depend if the cambers have adjustment available, if not then the current position is not alarming.

3: No and not adjustable.

4: BMW established the Castor and SAI positions with the wheels raised, no geo machine can measure them raised so Hunter removed the target positions from the data.

5: Track diff angle, Setback, Max steering lock is used for diagnostics so not required on your car.

6: The printout display's the before and after data, it's also a comprehensive report rather than a pretty overview.

 

Looking at your invoice it appears we fitted new tyres to the front, noted you needed rear tyres and that the OSR wheel has three cracks in it. Since you feel we didn't act professionally i would be more than happy to help with any costs as best i can.

[khurmit]

Spot on Tony! Although it's not that I felt the team didn't act professionally....it's just I had high expectations having met you when doing my Lexus ;-)

 

Thanks for the reply - so can I come in to get the alignment looked at again, and at the same time get new rears fitted (BMW replaced the cracked alloy FOC - hopefully the other one isn't cracked now!).

 

I need Goodyear F1 Asy2 255/30 R19s, and will get all wheels re-balanced and the alignment sorted.

 

Are you still at the MiltonK branch, or are you back in Chesham now. How can I order tyres as the website's not working?

[SMARTLY]

Read the first post of this thread earlier and thought what is the poster trying to do. Later became apparent that he was trying to apportion some blame to WIM to get a reduction in the price of some new tyres. From what Tony posts it doesn't seem that WIM did anything wrong and the poster only mentions it 8 months on when he needs some new tyres.

 

WIM warned that new rear tyres were required last June but they have been left to now.

 

To Tony's credit he has said he will help towards it as the poster has indicated WIM acted unprofessionally. Big up to you Tony but unless I'm missing something I don't see why you should need to.

 

I'd be interested to see what those rears look like now

 

Am I seeing this right?

[khurmit]

LOL my friend your accusations are totally unfounded!

 

This discussion is not about my rear tyres at all - can you tell me where you saw me say I expect any discount from WIM when I purchase my Goodyear Eagle F1s? Shhheeesh! (Although I do expect them to at least be close to Camskills prices).

 

This discussion is me querying my previous alignment, and questioning whether I should have it done again and continue to trade with WIM, or to go down the "Cheapest Vendor" route. Here are the facts:

• I already had obvious inner tyre wear last June when I visited WIM for 4 tyres and my alignment;
  
• At that point, WIM warned me of the cracked rear rim, the result being that I decided to only change the front tyres and planed to get the rear rim sorted, and then change the rears;
  
• WIM did however perform the Alignment, mentioning it's not ideal due to the rear tyres not being new, but I insisted;
  
• I went back to BMW, had a runout test to prove rim hadn't been damaged, paid for a new rim and fought for BMW to refund the cost due to known issues with BMW alloys cracking (see Watchdog etc) - I was successful in this, though it took 3 months;
  
• As the alignment was sorted and I had a non cracked rim, I decided to see if the inner edge wear of my rear tyres got any worse - to my surprise no, and they have held up till this day (I do v little mileage) and now worn fairly evenly. KUDOS TO WIM IN HINDSIGHT FOR THIS - plus the Fronts still look OK with no strange wear patterns;
  

So, you read my post and thought what is the poster trying to do. Let me explain:

• I travel a fair distance from home to visit WIM to buy my tyres and get my alignment done on all of my cars (I've only owned 2 so far though LOL, but will own many more in the future);
  
• I have paid more (just a little) for tyres at WIM than what I could have paid if ordered over the net;
  
• I have paid more for wheel alignment at WIM than at some local places with the Hunter machine;
  

​"WHY?" I hear you ask!

 

IT'S BECAUSE I DON'T EXPECT CUSTOMER SATISFACTION, I EXPECT CUSTOMER DELIGHT! AND I DON'T MIND PAYING FOR IT!

• The first time I went to WIM, I was delighted. The second time, satisfied, but having recently reviewed the results of the alignment, felt dissatisfied;
  
• I posted on here to try and resolve my dissatisfaction, as I would like to avoid using Kwik-Fit etc and give WIM a chance to discuss (hence I am using the WIM forum to discuss);
  
• I expected a response similar to exactly what Tony has already offered. I am questioning why some settings are so far away from target (regardless of tolerance), and Tony says some things can be looked at, some things can't;
  
• In return for his expertise, I will purchase tyres & alignments from WIM for the foreseeable future, regardless of who is the cheapest (within reason - and I won't use the 5% off voucher).
  

Simples!

[Rich]

It's easy to jump to assumptions, I've seen it before on WIM and other forums where something hasn't gone right, which might not even be a fault of the company, i.e. a courier issue and they expect refunds and free replacements etc, which is simply taking the p**s. That is obviously not the case here though.

 

You can't buy tyres online ATM, there is an issue with the store so you're better off sending a PM to Tony. Also WIM are no longer operating from the Milton Keynes branch, they have nothing to do with them now.

[Tony]

Reading the report it might appear sloppy because the numbers seem unsymmetrical but in real life the differences are minute.... As for the tyres the best i can do is £222 all in each, i doubt that's the cheapest online but we have the shill and equipment to support that fee.

[SMARTLY]

Well Khurmit I can only suggest maybe you have worded your posts better, if I can read into it what I did then I suspect others can.

 

Fair enough for you clarifying though.

[liner33]

 

IT'S BECAUSE I DON'T EXPECT CUSTOMER SATISFACTION, I EXPECT CUSTOMER DELIGHT! AND I DON'T MIND PAYING FOR IT!Simples!

 

and yet you expect his tyres to be close to Camskills prices ??

 

Top Tip - Next time someone does your geometry if you arent happy with it dont leave it 8 months before you question it

[khurmit]

Thanks for your suggestions and tips everyone! However this does seem to have turned into a bit of a storm in a teacup.....

 

Tony - lets order those tyres and get me booked in then. 2 x Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 -> 255/30R19 91Y XL. Let me know when you have them, and I'll pop down for fitting, balancing & alignment.

 

Thanks again.

[Tony]

Will do, thanks.

[khurmit]

UPDATE: I visited WIM on Monday 18th Feb. Had 2 x new rears fitted and alignment done by Tony.

 

Car is now handling beautifully. Tracks straight on the motorway, feels less skittish over bumps, good turn in feeling and I can finally get all the power down when exiting a corner (although that's prob attributable to the Goodyears).

 

My faith is restored - Very happy customer, and I will return for sure when I need tyres or re-alignment.

[parthiban]

Glad you got it sorted in the end, next time don't wait so long! 

[Tony]

Excellent..... Thanks for reporting back.

[Rich]

Glad it's sorted mate