SteveOC Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Hello all. As per my last thread from a few months ago, I ended up having my rear tyres rotated to the fronts and two new rears fitted. After probably 2000 miles at most, I got a puncture in the offside rear - and couldn't get the locking wheel nut off so have been running on a temporary repair that the RAC applied to the tyre in place. It looked like the McGard key was mangled as it wouldn't work on any of the 4 lockers, so I ordered a replacement from Germany, but instead of removing the nut, the new key won't remove any of the 4 lockers and also mangled itself. I am not certain, but I thought that I had loosened and torqued all the bolts after the tyres were fitted so don't know why this should be. The McGard bolts are recessed (by the design of the wheel) and have slip collars on them so the socket/remover technique seemingly isn't working and although I have a small gas set I don't fancy welding a nut on in such an enclosed space (I never got on with Mig and don't have a set) as I don't want to damage the wheels. So today, I tried the drilling option.................I looked for tungsten carbide drill bits, but everywhere seems to have only cobalt(?) so I tried a bunch of those, and all I seem to have achieved is a very minor indentation in one bolt head. Is there a better option of drill bit for the job, is it a matter of technique, or can the bolts just not be drilled out? I do now have a recommendation for a mobile welder who works with alloy (presumably TIG?) and it may be that I end up calling him as my temporary repair has done aboutg 80+ miles and if it goes I am stranded, but I would prefer to persevere with drilling if I can find a way to get it to work. Any idea what the WIM/BB guys do if a customer comes in and they can't remove the lockers? Steve O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMARTLY Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Sure there was a post on here of a tool set to remove lockers, have you tried a search? If not what about the ( expensive ) drills they sell on Ideal World in the advert the drill through anything including a file ..... Here you go: http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/ind...&hl=locking Drills in Ideal World are cobalt too, so may not work ..... http://www.idealworld.tv/26_Piece_Drill_Al...Set_161293.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Just about to post that link! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Just about to post that link! Last post on the WIM link says it all with regard to your particular problem, almost like a repost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveOC Posted May 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Just about to post that link! Last post on the WIM link says it all with regard to your particular problem, almost like a repost. Thanks for the replies - I did a search and didn't see that thread but did come across mention of the Dynomec kit elsewhere and considered it. I also came across mention of other firms using them around the country but don't recall the company/franchise name. How true your post is about the last entry on that link - my lockers are a cloverleaf design, and yesterday I too flattened a centre punch with just a couple of blows. I also didn't mention that I had previously tried other things, like lashings of WD40 and overtightening the other bolts but to no avail. I think I'll call the mobile welder guy today and see what he has to say. Folks have mentioned welding on an oversized bolt but it occurs to me that a nut would be a better option as heat could be applied tthough the centre of the nut to the locker. Steve O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveOC Posted May 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 A little update in case it is of help to anybody else.............. I went to see the welder guy and he said no there isn't the clearance to weld a nut and get decent penetration, so he sent me to a tyre fitter mate who tried a bunch of stuff with an airgun to no avail and then he in turn referred me to a garage where someone had some success previously, and he was going to try and cut one bolt off tomorrow morning. However, I had a problem with the repaired tyre and after a long conversation with Dynomec who told me that both AA and RAC patrols had their kits, I had the RAC back out - and this time they sourced a patrol armed with a Dynomec kit. After about an hours effort, a bolt was removed using the sacrificial type C blade - but I don't see it being reusable on the other 3 bolts as stated and a quick try seemed to confirm this. Dynomec are confident that they can remove my bolts with the kit - provided I take the car to Yorkshire and they will do so for something like £10+VAT per wheel. This *may* be an option now I have a new tyre and can travel without fear of being stranded with a puncture, or having a blowout on the motorway. However they won't guarantee success for anybody else using their kit, nor how much they might charge per wheel. They tell me that people have travelled to them from all over the country and even over from Ireland. As for drilling the bolts - hitting the head with a 'chisel' and lump hammer effectively removed many times more metal in 10-15 minutes than drilling achieved in 3+ hours. I don't think this would ever have worked. So the Dynomec kit is capable of removing Mcgard bolts with collars (Ultra?) and is probably a quick fix to use where the locker key is not available, but the lockers themselves are not seized or otherwise a problem and in this case the single sacrificial blade would probably do for all 4 wheels. Steve O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickT Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 Well it worked for me and to them it was straightforward. Glad I didn't try and remove them myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveOC Posted May 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 Well it worked for me and to them it was straightforward. Glad I didn't try and remove them myself. Just did a search for your thread and given your location it really is a no-brainer that you pay to have them removed - especially as the cost of a replacement key is 16 Euros (or 32+ Euros with express delivery) and this will be wasted if the key broke due to seized lockers. Given that yours came off so quickly though, I wonder if they were seized at all or would have come off anyway with a replacement key. I was given the opportunity to try the tool out for myself yesterday and I would say that there is a knack to using it and perseverance really is key - together with ensuring that the tool is properly aligned each time so it recuts in exactly the same place. Although the recovery guy eventually got one bolt off using a breaker bar and jack, I found that this didn't work for me and eventually removed 2 in quick succession (after much prior effort) using the supplied impact driver and a single cut blade. Using the impact driver helps retain an almost perfect key impression cut in the blade and in my opinion is the best method to allow re-use of the same blade in the remaining bolts. Using a breaker bar allows the blade to ride out of the grooves and seems to distort and weaken the blade each time it is unsuccessful in removing the bolt. It also seems to help if you first cut the blade using the locking bolt with the clearest/best pattern to it if you need to remove more than one. My wheels needed refurbing before I started, so cosmetic damage doesn't bother me, but I wouldn't say I was able to remove them without a scratch although it is likely that you could limit the damage, if any, to the first wheel where you initially cut the blade and even that should just be cosmetic. In fact, to further avoid scratching, I ignored the instructions about removing the freed bolt from the tool whilst still on the wheel and removed it in a vice or with a hammer as this is how I scratched one wheel when the tool freed itself up. Amusingly, there isn't a scratch on the lockers after being pounded with the tool and a lump hammer - all it seems to have done is cleaned them up a bit, and my brake discs also look tidier after all the loose crap vibrated off the outer rims - LOL. Incidentally, all of the above discussion about cutting blades is specific to only a couple of bolt types - including the 'cloverleaf' McGards with the collars which I have, and the blades have 2 different ends which can both be used on different sizes/patterns. All other types of lockers require use of one of the other 2 tools provided, and different methods. Steve O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveOC Posted May 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 Just thought I'd take a crack at the last bolt as I had access to the tool today and managed to remove it using the same blade I cut and used for the last 2 bolts, so it is possible to use the same blade for 3 seized bolts - or at least it was in my case - and I reckon it would still be usable for a 4th if required. Again, I only used the supplied impact driver and avoided using the breaker bar at all. Yesterday I did try and penetrate the threads using WD40, and in one case removed all 4 other bolts on a wheel to facilitate this but there is no evidence of any of this on the threads of the locking bolts once removed so I don't know that this helped at all. I also found that 2 of the bolts eventually came free after loosening and overtightening the remaining bolts, although in one instance at least this was not required Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveOC Posted May 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 Some pictures for you : (Left) Unused Blade - (Middle) First Attempt Blade - (Right) Second Attempt Blade (Left) Unused Blade - (Middle) First Attempt Blade - (Right) Second Attempt Blade All 4 lockbolts after removal All 4 lockbolt heads after removal Original problem lockbolt. The central indentation is the result of 3 hours drilling with cobalt drill bits of varying sizes. The outer damage to the rim on both sides is the result of 10-15 brute force attack with a hardened cutting tool that is now blunt. Steve O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickT Posted May 10, 2011 Report Share Posted May 10, 2011 Well it must have been operator error with using the breaker bar. The chap who did mine used the impact driver all from his kit and never made a single scratch. I think the trick is to make sure that the parts moulds into the pattern on the first bolt to subsequently remove the others. Honestly he did all of mine with a single blade and it looked like the third blade in your pic. I tried vauxhall who could not be arsed with trying their standard keys to see which 3 digit code I needed for my locking nuts and wanted to charge £150+ to remove them. Anyway glad to hear yours is now sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 10, 2011 Report Share Posted May 10, 2011 Wow, they took some beating! Glad you got them off without having to drill them though, that's what I did a few years ago and stuffed an alloy :angry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmminer82 Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 Hello all. As per my last thread from a few months ago, I ended up having my rear tyres rotated to the fronts and two new rears fitted. After probably 2000 miles at most, I got a puncture in the offside rear - and couldn't get the locking wheel nut off so have been running on a temporary repair that the RAC applied to the tyre in place. It looked like the McGard key was mangled as it wouldn't work on any of the 4 lockers, so I ordered a replacement from Germany, but instead of removing the nut, the new key won't remove any of the 4 lockers and also mangled itself. I am not certain, but I thought that I had loosened and torqued all the bolts after the tyres were fitted so don't know why this should be. The McGard bolts are recessed (by the design of the wheel) and have slip collars on them so the socket/remover technique seemingly isn't working and although I have a small gas set I don't fancy welding a nut on in such an enclosed space (I never got on with Mig and don't have a set) as I don't want to damage the wheels. So today, I tried the drilling option.................I looked for tungsten carbide drill bits, but everywhere seems to have only cobalt(?) so I tried a bunch of those, and all I seem to have achieved is a very minor indentation in one bolt head. Is there a better option of drill bit for the job, is it a matter of technique, or can the bolts just not be drilled out? I do now have a recommendation for a mobile welder who works with alloy (presumably TIG?) and it may be that I end up calling him as my temporary repair has done aboutg 80+ miles and if it goes I am stranded, but I would prefer to persevere with drilling if I can find a way to get it to work. Any idea what the WIM/BB guys do if a customer comes in and they can't remove the lockers? Steve O. I had a real issue with the locking nuts on my V70R - some lunatic tyre fitter managed to wind them on so tight I never thought I'd get them off. They are quite deeply recessed and also have that wierd metal anti-theft spinner on them.....whoever thought that was a good idea. Loosened one but the key got wrecked in the process; ordered another key from www.wheelnutkeys.com; found another tyre place that hammered the crap out of the nuts, got two off, but wrecked key no.2. Fourth one was incredibly tight - trusty RAC man with his Dynomec couldn't remotely shift it. Drilling was going to be expensive and take two hours per nut IF I could find anyone brave enough to do it!! Frustration had set in by this stage - three weeks with a set of front struts, rear discs, cv joint, and droplinks to go on the car and I couldn't get the #@*%$£ wheels off! Original tyre fitter (they know who they are Billy) didn't want to know - oh no mate, we never use a windy gun blah blah. Last resort was a local engineering works who recommended a local steel fabrication shop (D J Camp in Shildon - great job lads!). They covered the wheel in tape, then cuit a short length of pipe to fit exactly to the diameter of the nut head, welded the inside of the pipe to the head with a MIG, and then welded a 40mm AF headed bolt into the pipe. And it still took two of them and a metre long extension bar to get it off!! Did the job in the end but I wish I'd gone to them first as the hammering didn't do the other wheels a lot of good. The welding left a bit of a scorch mark on the lacquer but that's rubbed out. I have now binned said locking nuts and have fitted common or garden ones instead....I'm not going through that palaver again!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livefast Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 I just ended up in this situation too. I found a well aimed blow with a centre punch between the rotating collar on the outside and the actual locking nut breaks the collar quite easily and then a 19mm 12 pointed socket can be used with a little persuasion to remove the offending items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 In truth though all they are doing is their job? Agreed getting them removed is a real bark but isn't that a good thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMARTLY Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 Not sure how useful it is putting a quick solution on an open forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 6, 2013 Report Share Posted November 6, 2013 Removing them is hardly a quick fix..... The next car down the road without them is a better target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMARTLY Posted November 6, 2013 Report Share Posted November 6, 2013 Post #14 seems a pretty quick removal to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 6, 2013 Report Share Posted November 6, 2013 Not exactly silent though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMARTLY Posted November 6, 2013 Report Share Posted November 6, 2013 I didn't say quiet, just quick. But I guess a quick blow wouldn't make that much noise especially at times with fireworks and the like around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Posted November 6, 2013 Report Share Posted November 6, 2013 Keeping quiet about a security flaw is pointless. Telling the world so they can buy a set of lockers which are safer is better.After all, you can bet the tea leaf community pass on such tips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Removing these and other locks is hardly a trade secrete.... Agreed showing how to on YouTube would be rude but real world we could find out a "how -too" in what 30sec? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.