Tony Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Oi i post in loads of forums not just here, although i confess i'm limited by time nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Oi i post in loads of forums not just here, although i confess i'm limited by time nowadays. Â I was talking about the WIM forum on MEG not here...I've never seen you post anywhere else on there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Oi i post in loads of forums not just here, although i confess i'm limited by time nowadays. Â I was talking about the WIM forum on MEG not here...I've never seen you post anywhere else on there? Â I have about 30 active commitments and every active looking for more, hence the reason MEG and the wim position is quite, i don't have time to scan the other forums in MEG simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Oi i post in loads of forums not just here, although i confess i'm limited by time nowadays. Â I was talking about the WIM forum on MEG not here...I've never seen you post anywhere else on there? Â I have about 30 active commitments and every active looking for more, hence the reason MEG and the wim position is quite, i don't have time to scan the other forums in MEG simple as that. Â I know mate, you don't have to explain to me! I suggested that mac have a look in the WIM forum on MEG as someone may have posted the same problem there but with an answer from you not just other members Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_AS Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 With regards to Mk3 Mondeo's pulling according to the road camber - I found that tyre choice made a large difference. Conti Sport Contact (or perhaps Premium contact? - can't remember) were the worst, Michelin Primacy HP the best with Pirelli P6000 in between. Â Hope you get the bigger probs sorted out - the roads are in bloody awful condition at the mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted June 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 just thought i would update on this, havent resolved the situation  list of progress  1st stop - checked tyres 2 - one of the rims was slightly damaged (buckled) had it repaired. 3 - suspension checked, deemed ok 4 - Allignement done - car still not right. 5 - closer look at suspension replaced inner and outer tie rods and subframe bushes 6 Allignment - still not right 7 - my mechanic recommends that i get the chasis allignment checked on a jig before continuing. He thinks that the centralising valve in the rack is shot and this is why the allignments are not correcting the steering.  The car has very specific symthoms, on a straight road (1/25 crossfall), holding the steering wheel dead straight will have the car going in a straight line but several constant minor corrections will need to be made to maintain this straight line. The steering is very suspectible to faults in the pavement, hence the constant corrections.  Letting go off the wheel while going in the straight line, the car will instantly pull to the left and the steering wheel will also go to the left. However, on certain roads with superelevation, the car will then pull to the right but the steering wheel will still be off to the left. Essentially the car will pull in whichever direction the road camberes but the steering wheel wants to stay to the left.  Would appreciate any comments anyone has to make  Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 Is it just alignment your having done or is it geometry? If it's a geo can you display the report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted June 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 Is it just alignment your having done or is it geometry? If it's a geo can you display the report. Â yes full geometry, 4 wheel allignment. i posted a report previously and i can load this one later but the revised one corresponds with the old one so ................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 Is it just alignment your having done or is it geometry? If it's a geo can you display the report. Â yes full geometry, 4 wheel allignment. i posted a report previously and i can load this one later but the revised one corresponds with the old one so ................... Â So you did..... That report is fine so you need to move on, i fail to see why the transfer valve could become defective after the impact, my next port of call would be the struts top mount bearings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted June 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 Is it just alignment your having done or is it geometry? If it's a geo can you display the report. Â yes full geometry, 4 wheel allignment. i posted a report previously and i can load this one later but the revised one corresponds with the old one so ................... Â So you did..... That report is fine so you need to move on, i fail to see why the transfer valve could become defective after the impact, my next port of call would be the struts top mount bearings. Â Â when you say transfer valve, do you mean the centraliser valve in the rack (i may have the exact name wrong, its just what i know it as)? Â Suspension has been checked numerous times but yes they could have missed something but from my standpoint and logical approach, i cant see how something that creates such a big problem could be missed. I have been under the car myself and checked what i could, took measurements, looked for anything bent, etc. Â Do the top mount bearings have a large influence on allignment? My rear suspension was making noise over bumpy roads at low speed but recently got nosier up to 40mph. Changed the shocks as the noise appeared to be coming from there but didnt solve the problem. Â Would not relate the two as the steering was perfect even when it was noisy before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 I have known issues when the rear cross member bushings are not fitted correctly, so much so if we have a mond with rear bushing problems we replace the entire sub frame with an OEM one with the bushings fitted. Â A valve or top mount issue would be felt with the front jacked and the steering turned with/ without the engine running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted June 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 I have known issues when the rear cross member bushings are not fitted correctly, so much so if we have a mond with rear bushing problems we replace the entire sub frame with an OEM one with the bushings fitted. A valve or top mount issue would be felt with the front jacked and the steering turned with/ without the engine running.   Thanks for the comments  The allignment problem existed before i replaced the subframe bushes and was the same after i had the bushes replaced.  A valve or top mount issue would be felt with the front jacked and the steering turned with/ without the engine running. Could you expand on this if you dont mind.  I have noticed with the engine running, car stationary, not jacked, that turning the wheel through centre results in a clunking noise from the steering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 Engine not running and the front jacked you are feeling the natural resistance of the upper mounts, if there feel rough or lock intermittently their knackered. Engine running you are feeling the pump system, so your looking for the resistance left/ right to be the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted June 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 Engine not running and the front jacked you are feeling the natural resistance of the upper mounts, if there feel rough or lock intermittently their knackered. Engine running you are feeling the pump system, so your looking for the resistance left/ right to be the same.   yeah the pump makes a hmmming noise when engine running and steering turned side to side  also in general it is more difficult to turn right than left, i.e. there is more human force required to turn the steering wheel right rather than left Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 Engine not running and the front jacked you are feeling the natural resistance of the upper mounts, if there feel rough or lock intermittently their knackered. Engine running you are feeling the pump system, so your looking for the resistance left/ right to be the same.   yeah the pump makes a hmmming noise when engine running and steering turned side to side  Providing the resistance left/ right is the same then this is not a problem. How does it feel not running? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted June 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 Engine not running and the front jacked you are feeling the natural resistance of the upper mounts, if there feel rough or lock intermittently their knackered. Engine running you are feeling the pump system, so your looking for the resistance left/ right to be the same.   yeah the pump makes a hmmming noise when engine running and steering turned side to side  Providing the resistance left/ right is the same then this is not a problem. How does it feel not running?  in general it is more difficult to turn right than left, i.e. there is more human force required to turn the steering wheel right rather than left. this is driving on a flat road but on a normal crossfall round its more difficult to turn the steering to the right, difficult to quantify this though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 During the lock left/ right someone needs to feel the top mounts in order to assess if they are grumbling?.... Normally if the feel is gritty the bearings are damaged, hence the reason left/ right has different resistance. It should be the same! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted June 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 During the lock left/ right someone needs to feel the top mounts in order to assess if they are grumbling?.... Normally if the feel is gritty the bearings are damaged, hence the reason left/ right has different resistance. It should be the same! Â Â really really appreciate your comments tony. Gives me something else to look at. Â would the top mount bearing being shot cause the steering to wander depending on road surface, pull in the direction of road camber and generally make the car difficult to control? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 The top mount bearings allow the coil spring to flow flawlessly as the steering is yawed, if the bearings belay this the coil loads energy and unlocks when the opportunity allows, this would require a sudden steering action on your behalf to correct the line. Â In essence the top mount is a rail full of ball bearings, if the rail is damaged the orbit of the strut is denied, this denial is captured by loading the coil since it cannot orbit freely, this energy will release once the top mount releases the pressure, it's not a total "snap" effect so not as dramatic as i've explained but a few KG of loading due to a "reluctant" top mount race has dramatic effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted June 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 The top mount bearings allow the coil spring to flow flawlessly as the steering is yawed, if the bearings belay this the coil loads energy and unlocks when the opportunity allows, this would require a sudden steering action on your behalf to correct the line. In essence the top mount is a rail full of ball bearings, if the rail is damaged the orbit of the strut is denied, this denial is captured by loading the coil since it cannot orbit freely, this energy will release once the top mount releases the pressure, it's not a total "snap" effect so not as dramatic as i've explained but a few KG of loading due to a "reluctant" top mount race has dramatic effects.   thanks for the info tony. Sounds like the top mount bearings are quite tricky to check but i will have a go. Shame you arent in ireland, i was just working out how long it would take to get to you in the uk, its a long way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted June 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 tony  last allignment figures  http://img36.imageshack.us/i/allignment100623.png/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 No problems there..... Time to move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted June 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 No problems there..... Time to move on. Â yep knew you would say that, getting a feel for the allignments myself now anyway. Will have a look at the top mounts bearings. Did some measurements today and the distance from the ground to the trim on the rears is equal (tyre pressure checked and equal) but there is a 4mm differnce between the two front sides with the left being higher. i would have expected the left to be lower as its pulling to the left. Â Any other suggestions of things to check? Â Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 Not until the top mounts have been dismissed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted July 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2010 hi guys  Nearly have this solved finally. Took the car to another allignment specialist who was convinced it wsa an allignment problem as all the problems pointed in that direction. I of course told him it wasnt the geometry so when i was proved right he said to leave it with him and he would find it. Sure enough i went back later and what a difference there was . No more sharp pull only a small drift. Car was so much better. He examined everything and found that the front subframe wasnt quite sitting right. H e said it was 2mm off so he loosened the bolts at the bushes on the right side and moved it slighly and then tightened them again and this is what caused the change in steering to improve. said he could get it perfect by taking the subframe down and examining it and cleaning out the areas where the bushes sit into.  that was last wednesday, now on tuesday morning going to work, the var didnt seem as solid as it had been, bit more of a pull. Thought i t was my imagination but it definately there on the way home. This got slowly worse on wed and thurs until today when the pull was back to exactly the way it was.  My logic would dictate that either the bolts arent gripping properly that hold the subframe in place and the unevenness in the road surface and general travel are allowing them to move to a certain point or that the bushes are perishing from the inside.  Any comments appreciated, im nearly there now guys thanks for all the help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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