DJ_AS

We're at risk of sounding like a load of old fogies reminiscing like this... Anyway, had the alignment rechecked today at JPS Wheel Alignment in Milton Keynes as I work in MK and they could fit me in at lunch time. Unsurprisingly, the front toe was out and after correction all is good again. The original garage have provided a refund and apologised profusely. Turns out they had the alignment gear calibration checked a couple of days ago and something was out of spec. All's well that ends well as they say. Small donation made to the forums by way of thanks for your time, Tony.

<offtopic> In fact, I think I remember my first visit to Tony was in Watford, STS or something. Is that right? It was a long time ago! </offtopic>

Hey Rich, Indeed the garage I went to isn't that far from Chesham, but its very close to my home. And I had no initial intention of getting the alignment done, the car was booked in for a brake change. For everyday mechanical stuff they're a decent enough garage. I spotted the alignment gear inside and asked them to check it 'seeing as I was there'. Despite the simplicity of the Jazz setup, and the computer-guided alignment, they still messed it up! I have already asked about a refund and we have agreed they will give one once I have a set of independent measurements showing they've messed it up. Problem is I now have a very full diary for weeks so I don't know when I'm going to sort that out... It was handy when I worked in Watford - 1.30pm finish on a Fri and then on to WIM for some new boots/alignment! Mind you, not having kids back then also made scheduling stuff easier!

Cheers Tony. Tried to save time by getting the alignment checked while the car was in for brakes and ended up with more hassle. Serves me right for not bringing the car down to WIM!

Another thought just occured to me: on the third attempt, the only one I watched, the car was not on the turnplates. Does this have the potential to affect the alignment accuracy or do the turnplates just allow adjustments to be made more easily?

Cheers Tony, will try that when I get a chance.

Hey Tony - hope you're well! The tyres have been changed a couple of times in the time we had the car (punctures...). They're all the same brand - Pirelli Cinturato All Season (good tyre BTW). Fronts are more worn than the rears. Offside front is probably worn by ~2mm more than the nearside. Rears seem about equivalent to each other. Haven't checked the tyre pressures today but they were all fine about 2-3 weeks ago. The garage did say about swapping them around but they'd already stayed late today so I told them not to worry. Swapping front to back is straightforward but left to right is not so much (directional tyres). Is it worth rotating the tyres front to back do you think?

Hi all, hoping someone can illuminate the potential cause of my issues. I took the wife's Honda Jazz in to the garage for some work on the brakes and thought I'd get the alignment check as the nearside front has been kerbed twice recently. Anyway, after adjusting front toe, driving down the road I'm having to hold the a few degrees to the left (i.e. towards the kerb) in order to go straight. They've had another couple of goes to get this right but is still isn't. The steering wheel is definitely straight while they are doing the alignment (on the third attempt the boss sat in the car to hold it instead of using the clamp). I've attached a copy of the alignment report. To my eyes there are a couple of things that jump out: 1. thrust angle is out as is (possibly due to?) rear camber out of spec. This is non-adjustable and nothing seems obviously broken at the rear. 2. Toe was negative for the L wheel and positive for the R wheel, so I guess this means the front wheels were both pointing towards the kerb before (correct?). So why would the steering wheel not be straight now? Idea 1. Their alignment rig is out of calibration. I didn't think to ask at the time when it was last checked. Idea 2. The previous toe settings were a bodge to correct for an incorrectly aligned steering wheel Idea 3. The previous toe settings were a bodge to correct for the thrust angle This is the first time we've had the alignment checked in the time we've owned the car (~3 years, approx 6-7k miles per year) and there have been no issues with uneven tyre wear. What do you reckon?

Thanks again Tony. I think we were all a bit freaked out by the apparent length of the gash. With hindsight, perhaps we should've had the tyre evaluated professionally before getting it replaced at significant cost. Lesson learned: don't judge a book by its cover...!

Thanks Tony - this happened a couple of weeks ago (25th July) when the weather was a bit better. My wife would've reached speeds of up to 70mph going to work. I've just taken a look at the inner sidewalls and there appears to be no damage at all. In fact, the inner and outer parts of the tyre are near perfect save for the Stanley blade. We were just trying to ascertain whether this would've been a very fast deflation (on her work site, where there are builders present and hence Stanley knives potentially dropped) or whether she picked this up elsewhere and it only became noticeable once she'd got to work. The damage on the outside looks pretty awful (to my eyes), but the inner damage (which I've only just looked at) is nowhere near as bad. Any further thoughts? Would you be comfortable repairing this tyre?

My other half suffered a puncture recently after her tyre was pierced by a Stanley knife blade, which she has presumably driven over (pics below). My questions is: how far could you reasonably expect to drive on such a tyre before it was completely deflated; alternatively, how long would you expect this tyre to remain inflated? Note: angle is a bit deceptive here - the cut on the outside of the tyre is almost 3 cm long

I have Mondeo Mk3 and it too has always pulled to the camber of the road (which is predominantly left, of course). This surprised me so much initially that I got Tony to check the Geo and all was fine. Tony rotated the tyres front to back (different makes front and back), and voila! the problem was massively reduced. Turns out that the Conti's originally on the front (either sport or premium contact, can't remember which) really liked to follow the road camber and made the car slightly unpleasant to drive on steeply cambered roads. Pirelli P6's were much better. I now have Michelin Primacy HPs which pull a bit more than the Pirellis but not as much as the Continentals. My dad complains about his Mk3 pulling to the left also, and he has Bridgestones on his.

Ok, been a while so here's the end of this sorry tale (cos I have a pet hate of unfinished threads on forums) ... Following Tony's assertation's that the VW garage that 'corrected' the Getz's geometry had told some porkies, I decided to have the car re-tested at another local garage without first informing them of the story so far. Fresh perspective and all that, and complete independance. Anyway, the front geo-readings were similar to Tony's IIRC but there was something peculiar about the rear ones (I can't remember now, but the numbers made me doubt the garage had done the geo image properly... ). The missus however was happy with the way the car drove. After taking it for a spin, I was too... ... until the day I took it to have some new boots (sorry, Tony, didn't have a chance to trek to Blackboots) and I noticed that the handling had been 'cured' by moving the peculiarly worn offside front tyre to the nearside rear :oneeyed01: (the wear pattern having been caused by the offside front suspension being out of alignment). Anyway, new boots were fitted and the car was taken for a service at a Hyundai dealer. I requested the dealer provide a quotation for replacement of the lower control arm that Tony originally suspected was the cause of the problem.... when my wife returned with the car and I asked what the damage would be, she said they had not quoted as, having examined the suspension, they could not see a problem so changing components would be a 'waste of money' in their words. So what next... ...well having considered things carefully I have decided to do... nowt! I've wasted enough time on this and would frankly rather spend my time doing other things. The 4 differing geo reports would quickly be pulled apart should I take this to court so thats pointless. With regards to the car, handling seems fine, although obviously tyre wear will be more rapid on the offside front which would also lead to the pull returning. However, the car is not heavily used it would probably be cheaper in the lifetime of the car to replace the tyres a bit more often than to try and get this fixed. Anyway, move along now, nothing to see here... p.s. this is not a criticism, but I do wish that you'd (Tony) handled the replacement of the lower control arm. It would seem to me that general suspension work would be a natural progression for WIM / Blackboots.

Spirit VW: 01926 468 900 Job number: 398 Would muchly appreciate your investigation Now, I'm off to bed...

Of course, that did cross my mind but it would surprise me if this bloke was that dishonest. I'm half tempted to have the geometry rechecked by yourselves but can't really afford to chuck money away on the basis that you think someone is telling porkies.

No idea - I didn't speak to any of the garages directly, other than the chap who sold me the car. He seems honest enough. He used Spirit Hyundai / VW cos they're his family's dealer group.

Hmmm... looks like this may be a rare WIM fail... brace yourself Tony... The car was 'WIMed' as planned. After the initial geometry imaging was done, Tony advised that the out of tolerance camber and caster readings on the front right were likely to be caused by suspension damage - most likely the lower wishbone. Presumptive cause - pothole. WIM report here if you're interested: WIM geometry It should be noted that we had a look at the suspension while the car was on the ramps and there was nothing obviously wrong that could be seen. So I returned the car to the car dealer I had recently purchased it from, showing him the original and WIM geo reports and requested that he sort the problem. He returned the car to Spirit Hyundai in Northampton (where he had sourced it) who investigated the problem and found an 'unusual' wear pattern on the front right. They swapped another set of wheels onto the car and voila! the pull had vanished. The question remained though - what was the root cause of the tyre wear / pull? The car was then moved onto Spirit VW in Leamington Spa (quite an adventure for the little Hyundai!) as they're equipped with a geomtery rig. A further investigation by them and they also found nothing amiss with the suspension. More importantly, somehow the have managed to get the geometry back into tolerance. Even the rear toe! Spirit report here: Spirit VW geometry So it would appear that Spirit VW in Leamington have succeeded where WIM failed - the Hyundai geo could be adjusted back within tolerances... Formula 1 Leighton Buzzard 0, WIM 0 vs Spirit VW 1 ...so there's a money back guarantee from WIM, right? ps. I hate cars sometimes...

With regards to Mk3 Mondeo's pulling according to the road camber - I found that tyre choice made a large difference. Conti Sport Contact (or perhaps Premium contact? - can't remember) were the worst, Michelin Primacy HP the best with Pirelli P6000 in between. Hope you get the bigger probs sorted out - the roads are in bloody awful condition at the mo

I have a Hyundai booked in at 2pm on that date....... Is that you by chance? Yup

Tony - you'll get a chance to work your magic on the afternoon of 9th April

I got something right then...that front camber angle could cause the car to pull left? Without question..... The force of camber is conical ( wanting to roll into the cars centre ) on this car the NSF has less conical reply. So shouldn't the report have taken the front camber(s) into account when calculating and reporting the 'steer ahead' value? I'm assuming this is a simple rectification job for Mr Bones Are the rear alignment values worth worrying about?

We recently bought the missus another Hyundai Getz to replace her last one that was written off. She complained of slight pull to left so the dealer promised to have the car's alignment checked and adjusted. Come purchase day, we are provided paperwork to show the 0.12° steer ahead has been cured. A trip down the motorway on Fri indicates the pull left is still very much there. The received printout (after correction) can be found at: http://djsakka.co.uk/photo/hyundaigeo.jpg Is there anything that may cause the pull on that report? I noticed the rears are out of indicated tolerance but thrust angle is reported as 0°. Or could it be the steering wheel was not centred properly at the time the alignment was carried out? It should be noted the last Getz did not do this but was on different tyres to this one. If there's nothing obviously wrong alignment wise I might wait to have the tyres changed in a month or so and see how it goes, otherwise it'll be a combined WIM / Blackboots trip in order. Thanks in advance

I'm not the bones... well at least I don't think we're related Sorry Jon, my bad! How embarassing...

Damnit, I was just about to post a link to this (just watched the video over at Pistonheads)! Beaten by the Bones. Truly, that is an awesome drift

On the subject of the glow plug light and stall, it could be the cam position sensor. Certainly the case with my Mk3 Mondy (03 reg, so similar age). Its inexpensive to fix if it is that.