Tony Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Just be sure they let you set the steering position, it's not an offensive request. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz Posted January 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Just be sure they let you set the steering position, it's not an offensive request.  Will do! i will get them to try & achieve +0.7mm left & +0.7mm right as per the spec data and the rear +1.3mm left & +1.3mm right  i shall go back next Saturday and upload the new printout... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Please do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz Posted January 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Please do.  Hey Tony i decided to get the alignment checked again today, here are the results! let me know your thoughts!  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz Posted January 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2014  Please do.  Hey Tony i decided to get the alignment checked again today, here are the results! let me know your thoughts!  Rear was adjusting again and only the front right hand side  Although on the weekend they adjusted both front track rod ends, they only adjusted the right hand side this time advising the left hand front track rod bolt they could not loosen as the spanner kept slipping  the steering was dead straight prior to the adjustments being carried out  although there is an improvement i feel it is still not 100% right as the vehicle still wanders to the left Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 although there is an improvement i feel it is still not 100% right as the vehicle still wanders to the left Wandering is not always geometry related though, tyres and worn bushes can cause this as well.  Best way to test the tyres is swap them side to side and see if it goes the other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 What Rich says is good advice....... Odd the toe positions had changed but it does explain some of the reason for the off-line steering position. My only geometric concern now is the OSF camber. Cambers energy is compressive, basically both front wheels pushing against each other ( as well as other duties ) but at the moment the OSF is pushing harder than the NSF.... Difference here is if there's energy pushing left then as a driver you would need to hold the right hand down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz Posted January 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 The tyres are equally worn would this still cause this? You've hit the nail on the head Tony it is exactly what I am experiencing I am having to hold the steering slightly down to the right to prevent the vehicle wandering to the left  I have a theory and was thinking if this would work? to adjust the front right to negative toe or to a lower positive toe value and leave the right as it or or adjust it to +0.7mm or lower and hopefully this will compensate and rectify the problem some what... what do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 The tyres are equally worn would this still cause this? It's not to do with how they've worn, have a read of this thread -Â http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=165 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz Posted January 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2014  The tyres are equally worn would this still cause this? It's not to do with how they've worn, have a read of this thread - http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=165   Interesting read! i shall swap the tyres side to side and report back!  What do you think about my theory? may it work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 If there's energy pushing the car left then it has nothing to do with the toe angle..... This is why i asked earlier about a "steer" which is a line deviation when the steering is held level or a "pull" which is resisting a geometric force. Â I'll try my best not to complicate things now........ As it stands you have more camber compressive force to the left, in addition you have less directional stability force on the NSF castor due to it's lower position. Both angles are within the permitted over axle disparity tolerance ( max diff ) but the combination suggests the car will evoke energy to the left. Â I think before is offer a solution as to why the camber is wrong you need to move those front wheels side-to-side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Tony is the best person to answer that but you could be setting yourself up for uneven toe wear by doing that. Better off finding the cause of the problem  Edit - The Dr beat me to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz Posted January 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 If there's energy pushing the car left then it has nothing to do with the toe angle..... This is why i asked earlier about a "steer" which is a line deviation when the steering is held level or a "pull" which is resisting a geometric force.  I'll try my best not to complicate things now........ As it stands you have more camber compressive force to the left, in addition you have less directional stability force on the NSF castor due to it's lower position. Both angles are within the permitted over axle disparity tolerance ( max diff ) but the combination suggests the car will evoke energy to the left.  I think before is offer a solution as to why the camber is wrong you need to move those front wheels side-to-side.   Tony is the best person to answer that but you could be setting yourself up for uneven toe wear by doing that. Better off finding the cause of the problem  Edit - The Dr beat me to it!  Cheers chaps! will swap the front tyres side by side and report back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Please do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz Posted January 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Please do  Well guys I swapped the 2 front tyres over side by side and low and behold the vehicle now pulls to the right!   I have had one new tyre fitted to the rear and was thinking of swapping it over with the right front to see if this would cure the pull, haven't done so yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMARTLY Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Â Â the vehicle now pulls to the right! Â I think that's what they wanted to happen ................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz Posted January 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2014    the vehicle now pulls to the right!  I think that's what they wanted to happen .................   You've lost me  , please could you explain further... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 It proves the pull is pneumatic not geometric, so in essence you have found the criminal. As you may have read in the link Rich offered this is not a tyre defect it's just a build issue that can happen to any make of tyre. I think the problem tyre is now on the OSF so i would move that to the rear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz Posted January 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 It proves the pull is pneumatic not geometric, so in essence you have found the criminal. As you may have read in the link Rich offered this is not a tyre defect it's just a build issue that can happen to any make of tyre. I think the problem tyre is now on the OSF so i would move that to the rear.  Cheers Tony! I shall remove the osf tyre to the rear today, I guess once this is done do you think this should 100% rectify the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Certainly reads that way..... I'm still not to happy with the OSF camber but it's not responsible for the pull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz Posted January 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Certainly reads that way..... I'm still not to happy with the OSF camber but it's not responsible for the pull. Â I hope so, Great! many thanks! I shall report back.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 We will be waiting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz Posted January 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 We will be waiting Good morning Tony! Osf tyre was removed to the rear pass side, no more pulling! Whoo hoo! really chuffed that we managed to resolve it! Couldnt have done it without the advice on this great forum! Â Do you think i should i go back to the garage and get them to tweak the front alignment further? I'm quite fussy and would like it bang on the factory settings, is it worth it? Would it make any further improvement than how it is at the moment? Â Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Result Alot of people have been here and think it's the geo when it's actually the tyres. Â I think the geo is ok, it's within the factory settings and I don't think you would notice any difference if it was tweaked any further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Good.... I'm pleased we got a result with remote diagnostics....... I feel the current settings on the geo is fine, there will always be small variations each time it's measured as said earlier, plus don't forget the increment of measurement is minute nowadays..... Years back it was the target setting give or take a foot, whereas nowadays is the target give or take 100th of a degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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