bojcistv Posted January 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 I know for that type of balance machine but it was in use long long times ago here. I think any way that balance is ok since I was on Hunter machinery and there weren't found anything run out or bad. It is matter of either differential (drive line) as source of an unexpected vibration or suspension where something in that can't damp normal, inside tolerance, vibration. I really can't see what else could be. Just to mention I measured radial and lateral run out with dial gauge and I didn't find anything run out in out of tolerances (in fact results on both wheels were deep inside tolerances). So I don't think there would be found better results with this on car balance machine than it had with conventional methods....even if I would dig out one here in the region. P.S. Very interesting video any way. Maybe it would be interesting just to see if it will occur while rotating like that. I tried to simulate that with one by time wheel jacked up and rotate more than 140 km/h. We didn't find anything unusual there....Everything was still and smooth.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickT Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 I see it as the Hunter/ classic wheel balance just balances the wheel. The wheel on car balances the combination of the wheel/ discs/ drums/ drive shafts. I would stay with the wheels balanced WITH a haweka stud plate first. THEN with the wheel on the method and balance it as a unity. IF you have to add a weight to balance it then Mark the added weights with paint to make it stand out. The corner with the most wrought added is that with the rotation vibration issue. Tip is to put the wheel on with the tyre valve neatest the screw that holds the disc/ drum in place so you put it back the same place so you don't introduce vibration.. Measuring for run out does not necessarily make it uniformly balanced. I used this method on an old polo that was driving me nuts and it was the rear brake drum itself that was the fault yet there was no brake judder. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted January 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 Sounds logical Nick and thanks for advice. I will try to do as you said although I didn't understand the part how to balance the wheel on the car. I don't have that kind of machine and there is no any of it in the region here....I would like to have it but I don't....Is there any alternative to that machine? You used it when you dealt with that Polo you mentioned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 The reason i suggested on car balance was an idea to see the rotating mass in order the view where the issue is being generated. If by example the wheel vibrates at the given speed you would be able to see if it's outside of the lower pivotal point or inside. Another method would be to jack the car up on the front making sure it's level/ secure and driving the road wheels. Only problem is you will need to restrain the drive wheel so the slave will spin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted February 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 I haven't been here for awhile. I've tried to find those on car wheel balancer but no one here didn't even hear for such machine. Any way I noticed something very interesting but I am not sure where to put it in. So, vibrations between 120/140 km/h depends on temperature in a way higher outside temp somehow stronger the vibrations??? I am almost sure it is inner CV joint since I feel more vibrations under accelerating (between 120 to 140 km/h) than on the constant driving but I can't figure out what suspension or drive line part is laying in line with temperature? I remember Tony you talked about some temp and chassis frequency load but I must say I didn't catch it all so if you can to repeat a lesson to an pupil who didn't pay necessary attention on the class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Before i do that i assume the inner cv joints have sufficient grease in them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted February 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Yes they have enough grease inside. I will try to change it during the next month or so and to see what will be changed (if it will...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted March 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Well I was at one very experienced Ford mechanic few days ago and he said the trouble isn't in drive shafts at all. He points at top strut mounts and convinced me to go and buy it in a store so he will change it in wednesday (fortunately it is not so expensive / 38 Euros for both sides) I really can't see how that vibration is connected to the strut mounts since I can't see any of usual symptoms of worn mounts so far. Or it is possible as well since when we get to the Ford everything is in play!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Isn't there two mounts each side.... A top strut mount and a turret mount? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted March 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 Well technically yes there are but common word for that set is top mount (consist rubber part with bearing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 Well the bearing part of the mount could be of interest but the very top mount is merely a guide so i doubt if that's an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted March 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 Yes I thought the same although there are no any logical explanation for strut mount role in vibrations transferring without any other signs who are characteristic for worn strut mount. The true is that I didn't change them together with the shocks but in that time they looked good to me. The fact is vibration depends definitively by outside temp and tire pressure by whom vertical stiffness of the wheel set is changing where forwardly and consequently changes an wheel hop frequency. Wheel hop frequency should be damped by car's suspension system and something in my car doesn't work its job as it should as well! I changed shocks, hydro-bearings on the lower arm and there are very few other things left to change....any way I went to buy those strut mounts since it is not so expensive (38 Eurs for both sides) and we will see if it will bring some improvement. I am just wondering if someone have had anything similar and if it were mounts as vibrations cause it would anchor my thoughts about Ford as something very unusual and specific in car diagnose and finding culprits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 They are the next logical step but historically the mount/ bearing would need to be in such a worn condition either it would be tight/ loose on turning or knock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted March 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Well Tony when we come to the Ford all logic stops. I can't see how it is bound with floor shaking and steering wheel vibration. I can see some movements in strut mounts but it seems as normal and I know there should be some and there are no any normal signs of worn, as long as I can see it. No other symptoms of wear mounts like clunks, steering wheel floating, tires wear or something like that. It is not expensive so worth try to do it and see if there will be any improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 As said the cost of them isn't end of days so you might as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucich Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 @bojcistv, I see you are moving from ford forum to get more specialist view on your vibrations problems If I were you..I would try last thing and keeping my driving style driving up to 100km/h for next 2-3 years and then get rid of the car ! Replace all....again ...replace all, rear drive bushings on your mondeo....as I saw, you never changed anything on rear part. It's 10 years old car...and your car (mine too) will never be like new. I read somewhere that vibrations on the seats...99% chances are from the rear end. One thing that you already did and you can not go back in past..for replacement you used almost all used parts and parts with questionably quality brands (Acron, Febi...). This is what you have to take for consideration also and there is no going back. Maybe your vibration issues were gone until those "new" parts reached the same age or mileage as your original parts, or cause they are not "original" thus they last less than OEM parts. Keep the tires inflated up 2.2 bars....I switched to that strategy also ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted March 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 Hey Luchich my friend you found me here! Well yes that was the reason I moved on this forum since they are obviously more specialized in wheels and therefore on vibrations. Many people said that vibrations in seats originated from rear end but the truth is vibrates in seats means rear tires aren't in balance. In my case everything is completely fine there (on rear end of the car). I thought about it too but I just can't find anything bad there that would need to replace or something like that. Rock solid. About OEM parts....I will show you pics of the aftermarket parts I have bought along with the OEM and you will find they are quite the same but only without Ford's markings on it. It had been removed and you can clearly see it. So, for hydro bushings on lower arm, they are in Febi Bilstein's package indeed but OEM like inside with removed Ford's OEM marks and stamps. Only used parts I put on the car were drive shafts (although bearings on the inner joint spider are OEM too....) and it solved vibrations that had occurred while accelerate. Everything else I have changed so far was brand new and let's say OEM likely. When we come to OEM parts you will see that's just an trick car factories use to make their extra profit since they decrease prices on their cars with guarantees terms pushed on 3 years (or even 5 or 7) and they bind you with their garages and services during that term. So car is rock solid but that vibration occurred on front end in the 120 to 140 km/h only no matter what are you doing but somehow it is temperature and tire pressure related. Conclusion. I will change strut mounts and it will be the end of this story. I won't invest in this money pit by changing all drive bushings on the rear end. It means I will follow your advice and just keep ignored this vibrations trouble next 2 years and get rid of car and most likely I won't driving Ford no more since it is puzzled car for even most experienced mechanics and car specialists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 30, 2014 Report Share Posted March 30, 2014 Don't give up!...... There's always a reason and the only limitation is how for outside of the box you look. Do as you suggested and change the top mounts/ bearings and who knows this could be the hit your waiting for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickT Posted March 30, 2014 Report Share Posted March 30, 2014 Have you tried jacking the driven wheels off the ground and driving through the gears to see of the vibration is there? (Wheels of the ground so they spin freely) of it is then you can focus on that area. Then remove the wheels and repeat. If the vibration has gone then you can focus on the wheels such as an out of round (egg shaped) tyre/ bent rim etc. If the vibration occurs at a certain engine speed in every gear then it's an engine/ drive shaft issue. If it's at one certain engine speed in one gear it's a harmonic issue. I'd do this to try and eliminate the source and circumstance rather than blindly change parts. Good luck, you have the patience of a saint. Next time don't buy a Ford. ... (Or lexus) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted March 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Thanks for supports guys. I will try to find out what is going on as I am really interested to end this. As I mentioned before on this forum, during my seeking on what is going on with this Ford, I have found millions of stories around the web about the very same or very similar symptoms on ride quality of their car. And also about inability of garages and dealerships to find out what is going on with vibrations controls. I remember my old BMW E30 1.8i (made in 1985.) who rode in the same way all 11 years while it had been into my hands. There were no bugs in suspension like hydro bushings, no vibrations but out of unbalanced tires and it was like that during the all speeds, no matter what outside temperature is or what is pressure into tires. All in all, I have tried many things so far in order to solve this and to localize the source and to find out the culprit. I managed to decrease the level and type of vibrations for let's say 85% from the time it occurred. I would like to solve it and because for the other people who would might have suffer from this (or very likely) trouble and I would be happy if someone were able to identify his trouble out of this 10 pages issue in this great forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted May 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 Good news! Today we changed top strut mounts and it made big improvement of the riding and almost vibrations are disappear. I was drove almost 30 km on highway trying to maintain the speed range where most likely vibrations occur but it is everything fine. Some kind of vibrations are still there but it is not even close the ones I have struggled for 2 years.... So the tip of the day. If you are changing the shocks you MUST change strut mounts too. My mounts didn't have any signs of wear neither they have any visible play but obviously they were culprit for increased vibrations on the car in the range of speeds where natural frequency of the suspension system is most visible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 Great news at last..... Question were the top mounts you removed original or after market ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted May 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 They were OEM ones. As well as the ones I've assembled back (although they are aftermarket there are clearly visible marks Ford on them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted May 11, 2014 Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 Is everything still feeling good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted May 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 It is much better Tony! I can still feel some of those vibrations but not in such manner it has been till now. Most likely those are normal ones picked up from road imperfections or even by unbalanced front wheels and I can feel them from the bottom of the car through the pedals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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