Noel Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 Hi, Had a big bang today and the result is the front left wheel has been driven backwards by approx. 1.5 inches took it to my local mechanic and he "straightened" the sub-frame but said that what exactly was bent wasn't obvious but all the arms may be affected so i'd be better off sourcing all the pieces secondhand than messing about replacing some parts and seeing if it fixed it... anyway Tony what do you think of this analysis? is this the best approach or could you advise of a method of determining whats to be replaced? cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alnug Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 subframe bent ...really sad to hear this......if it was bad enough to bend it then it would have to be replaced as a start.....personally i think insurance is the way to go with this and I'd agree that replacing all bits involved will be the best solution otherwise you'll be forever chasing problems....it doesn't sound cheap either A bang that hard could have caused other hidden damage too such as the steering rack...oh god i don't want to think...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janey Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Sorry to hear that Noel Must have been one heck of a hole, hope the damage cost doesn't come out too high for you What are the chances of trying to claim off the council/highways dept ? Although it will depend if the hole has already been reported or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Oh dear, sorry to read this mate..... Is the car pulling left now? The set-back is positioned by the Tie rod and is a reasonably cheap part to buy.... You won't be able to see the bend even if you compare the old with the new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted April 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Oh dear, sorry to read this mate..... Is the car pulling left now? it was but my mechanic straightened what he could and gave the tracking a quick adjustment, drives nice and straight considering... The set-back is positioned by the Tie rod and is a reasonably cheap part to buy.... You won't be able to see the bend even if you compare the old with the new. I have found an IS200 being scrapped locally so will hopefully be travelling there Saturday... if i can get the parts handy enough what bits should i definitely replace? other than the Tie rod as you have mentioned.. @Janey, yes it was the worst pothole i ever struck, side indicator lens even popped out, don't think I'd have any luck with my local council as it was at the edge of a narrow "back road" that i was using to drop the toddler off at the sitter, i was going nice and easy ( less than 50km/h = 30mph) but met a jeep in the middle of the road on a narrow bend so had to swerve in hard to avoid the dumb-ass, hit the hole on the margin doing about 25-30km/h but the hole was about 7-8 inches deep and vertical sides ,also i braked instinctively which according to my mechanic made the damage worse as there's less "give" and the all the weight would be thrown forward into the hole.... I recently put on Lexus IS250 17" alloys and they seem to have stood up remarkably, don't seem to be buckled and no puncture even... thanks for the sympathy everyone but it could have been worse, if i had stayed out of the edge then the sides of both vehicles would have meet .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 How far was the tracking out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted April 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 How far was the tracking out? he didn't say but the steering wheel was at 30 degrees Looks like it's going to have to be put my insurance... second hand parts + labour are more than my excess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 How far was the tracking out? he didn't say but the steering wheel was at 30 degrees Looks like it's going to have to be put my insurance... second hand parts + labour are more than my excess Ok so now the tracking is done the steering wheel is straight and there's no pull, is this correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted April 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 No pull drives straight with no hands, but the steering wheel is at about 5-10 degrees down on the right, if that makes sense Presume theres no point doing anything with it till i get it properly repaired, will ring my insurance in the morning and let them get an assessor to look at it first... at least this way it'll get new parts, never know with second hand what life it's had... thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Ignore the setback there can be loads of reasons for this... If the car is truly hurt then it will pull so the camber and castor must be ok'ish. If the toe was way out then i would be concerned the steering arm may be bent but other than that i'm comfortable she is still in good shape. Insist on a Geo we can go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted April 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 Finally got the car in to Toyota main dealers near me yesterday and told them my story and left it to them for a few hours, went back and he told me they couldn't fix it although it's bloody obvious that it's hurt, they don't have any data for jap imports so don't know what it should measure, .... i suggested was it possible to get symmetry measurements from the other side but he wasn't sure... he said a main Lexus dealer might have relevant data for an IS200 but my nearest Lexus dealer is a 4hour journey... Anyway he gave me the name of a chassis specialist abit closer to home so must get in contact with him next to see what he says... pothole was filled in day afterwards... typical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 Finally got the car in to Toyota main dealers near me yesterday and told them my story and left it to them for a few hours, went back and he told me they couldn't fix it although it's bloody obvious that it's hurt, they don't have any data for jap imports so don't know what it should measure, .... i suggested was it possible to get symmetry measurements from the other side but he wasn't sure... he said a main Lexus dealer might have relevant data for an IS200 but my nearest Lexus dealer is a 4hour journey... Anyway he gave me the name of a chassis specialist abit closer to home so must get in contact with him next to see what he says... pothole was filled in day afterwards... typical I don't understand why there's no pull?..... I have the OEM data if you need it.... But in truth all they need to do is measure the car and triangulate from the chassis image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted April 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 Finally got the car in to Toyota main dealers near me yesterday and told them my story and left it to them for a few hours, went back and he told me they couldn't fix it although it's bloody obvious that it's hurt, they don't have any data for jap imports so don't know what it should measure, .... i suggested was it possible to get symmetry measurements from the other side but he wasn't sure... he said a main Lexus dealer might have relevant data for an IS200 but my nearest Lexus dealer is a 4hour journey... Anyway he gave me the name of a chassis specialist abit closer to home so must get in contact with him next to see what he says... pothole was filled in day afterwards... typical I don't understand why there's no pull?..... I have the OEM data if you need it.... But in truth all they need to do is measure the car and triangulate from the chassis image. OEM data would be very handy indeed, thanks Tony i'll PM you my email address , assuming if thats ok? as for the pull, it pulled like a train to the left after the bang but what ever my own mechanic did got rid of that.... wasn't there when he was working on it, he's very good at his job but a man of few words.... have it booked in to this "specialist" 12.00 tomorrow, will see what he says Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted April 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 update, went to the chassis specialist and was pleasantly surprised... meet a very clued up man who seems passionate about his work... which is great to see this is the machine he has .... don't know if it's up to WIM standards but it looked impressive to me.... anyway after 10 Min's this is the main part that is strained and i should replace with a new one only, not even think about getting one second hand.... only problem is to figure out what it's known as to Toyota and get a part no.? Edit : It's lower arm no.2 and it's not available, according to Toyota, they had a price and no. but no joy ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammy Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 sorry to here that mate.i had a meetin with a bigun a while back.suffered a slightly flated wheel and a bent lower arm and rear control arm.got a claim goin on atm perhap's you maybe ablke to claim off highway's agency too ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 It's a Tie-rod or track control arm.... Just tell them it has a horizontal rear bushing, that's the only one on the front that has this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted April 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 It's a Tie-rod or track control arm.... Just tell them it has a horizontal rear bushing, that's the only one on the front that has this. they identified it as lower arm no.2 and had a part no. and price but when we went to order it, the system showed it as unavailable.... have found one online so waiting for an email back.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 15, 2008 Report Share Posted April 15, 2008 It's a Tie-rod or track control arm.... Just tell them it has a horizontal rear bushing, that's the only one on the front that has this. they identified it as lower arm no.2 and had a part no. and price but when we went to order it, the system showed it as unavailable.... have found one online so waiting for an email back.... Typical it's unavailable... Good new is that once you have it, it's an easy fix considering what happened to the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted April 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2008 It's a Tie-rod or track control arm.... Just tell them it has a horizontal rear bushing, that's the only one on the front that has this. they identified it as lower arm no.2 and had a part no. and price but when we went to order it, the system showed it as unavailable.... have found one online so waiting for an email back.... Typical it's unavailable... Good new is that once you have it, it's an easy fix considering what happened to the car. Turns out it's only unavailable to Toyota, rang Lexus today just to see what they'd say ... and they'll have the part by tomorrow and it'll cost 100 euro less from Lexus.... Toyota said they'd need the price up front as it would be a special order (this is before they realised they couldn't get it) whereas Lexus said i could pay when i collect it.... that been said both dealers couldn't have been more polite and helpful, Toyota examined my car last week and because they didn't have the specialised equipment to diagnose what was exactly wrong they didn't charge me anything and gave me the name of a specialist that they thought could... very happy with the Toyota / Lexus experience will report back when i get the arm fitted... hope it sorts it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted April 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2008 Today's update.... Just back from getting the new arm fitted, it's much better but there's still something bent , Front left wheel is now approx 8- 10mm further back than the right-side... The chassis was measured and is ok, so the conclusion is it's either the vertical hub bar or the wishbone at the top or it could be both? Here is the printout, as you can see the Castor is a problem... any thoughts? cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 19, 2008 Report Share Posted April 19, 2008 It can't be the upper arm.... Can you look at the ARB and see if it's moved from it's support rubbers? if you can see a polished area exposed then the problem must be in the un-sprung area... If yes then the lower wishbone is bent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted April 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 It can't be the upper arm.... Can you look at the ARB and see if it's moved from it's support rubbers? if you can see a polished area exposed then the problem must be in the un-sprung area... If yes then the lower wishbone is bent. Sorry for not replying sooner but i wanted to have a go myself first before proceeding with purchasing anymore parts... no movement on the ARB... Armed with your info i spent 2 hours under the car this evening and couldn't see anything bent ... the chassis guy had measured from special holes under the chassis to the suspension bolt heads and told me that there was only a couple of mm in it... not enough to cause my problems.. Anyway as you said the problem has to lie with the lower wishbone so although the bar looks dead straight i decided to remove the crown nut on the lower ball joint and put a piece of metal tubing over the bolt thread and used that to extend the bolt so as to give a better view as to what angle it was at .. straight away it looked different to the right wheel, so i took a right angle from the brake disc face to the end of the metal tube and measured this and compared it with the other side, there's a difference of 7mm ( the metal tube was around 7"long)... i then took more measurements to the chassis points and it became clear that the end of the bar where the ball joint bolt goes through is actually twisted so in conclusion although the suspension bolts are roughly where they're supposed to be the lower ball joint was not facing the upper joint at the correct angle and throwing the Castor off.. going to order this bar tomorrow and take a picture of it on the table with a few rods going through the pivot points and do the same with the old one just to prove my diagnosis... Hope this gets it close enough.... as the car is actually driving fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 It was the lower wishbone then ... Once replaced remember you can use the camber to change the castor. Providing the disparity over the axle is no more them 45' then the car will drive fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted April 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 It was the lower wishbone then ... Once replaced remember you can use the camber to change the castor. Providing the disparity over the axle is no more them 45' then the car will drive fine. Well i fitted the bar yesterday evening and it made a little difference approx 3mm, so the left wheel is now 7mm back on the right, may be less when i get it back to be measured as the tracking and camber are now out.... you can use the camber to change the castor How's that work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 It was the lower wishbone then ... Once replaced remember you can use the camber to change the castor. Providing the disparity over the axle is no more them 45' then the car will drive fine. Well i fitted the bar yesterday evening and it made a little difference approx 3mm, so the left wheel is now 7mm back on the right, may be less when i get it back to be measured as the tracking and camber are now out.... you can use the camber to change the castor How's that work? As you move the camber toward positive, the toe gets violently displaced, as this is corrected it indirectly moves the castor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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