andyelcomb Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Personally I would really push the pedal to the floor to ensure you get the full stroke of the master cylinder. If the pedal resists, then you will probably have to open the bleed nipple further or try a differnt wheel. Sometimes the nipples do get fully or partially blocked. If after a full bleed you still have a soft pedal, and you are sure that you haven't got one flexy pipe bulging as pressure is applied (not that uncommon), then it sounds as though the master cylinder seals might be leaking and allowing fluid to pass back when the pedal is pushed. You won't get any leakage, but you will get too much pedal movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liner33 Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 I was always told not to depress the pedal fully with older cars as it can damage the seals in the master cylinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Yes I have been told that as well and to only use the same pressure you would in normal braking. If I open the nipples any more then fluid will come out of the threads. I thought you only need to open them enough for the fluid to come out, any more and you risk letting air in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 With the engine off I depressed the brake pedal several times and it got harder and higher each time. While holding the pedal I started the engine, it sank probably about 1/3-1/2 way. I'm not sure if this is too low though, never tested it before? I got to work, parked up and depressed the pedal before turning the engine off and held it for 30 seconds, it stayed in the same position. Pumped it a few times and it went rock hard and higher again. These seem to indicate the booster is working as it should though. The first 1/2-1" of brake travel has never done anything on this car since I've had it, which seems to be normal for the Accord. After that with normal pressure applied the car brakes and stops fine. If I keep my foot on the brake pedal it will start to sink but not all the way down. I think I've had this conversation with Adam before, his Accord did the same. If you brake hard (I did a couple on the way to work) the pedal firms up and doesn't feel soft, the car stops ok, which I believe is correct. I'll see what it's like going home but I'm not sure if another bleed would help or not. After pumping the pedal it goes rock hard and you can only press it about 1/4 of the way down if that, so I don't think there's any chance of damaging the seals anyway if I held it right down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liner33 Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 Yep sounds like servo is ok , if it firms up a lot when the engine is off there is air somewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 How much travel should the pedal have with the engine off, would it just be like cars of the old days that weren't power assisted so you should still be able to brake and stop the car? As I've driven it could there be air anywhere in the system now meaning ideally I need to bleed all 4 corners rather than just try the rears first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liner33 Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 Travel varies from car to car but it should be firm initially , if it gets noticeably firmer after a few pumps that suggests there is air Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 I agree..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 So should I start from the front or just try the rears again, can air bubbles travel backwards in the system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liner33 Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 i'd do the rears first personally but probably better to follow Hondas advice again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 Yeah I think I will, it'll be easier than putting the whole car on axle stands. Could use it as an excuse to put the summer wheels back on, I'd be doing it next weekend anyway. The tubing I got was 5mm and a snug fit, does it matter how tight it is, can that cause any issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liner33 Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 No as long as the fit is snug enough so it doesnt leak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 Thing is there's little pressure on the exit bleed nipple unlike the rubber flexi in-feed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 I read that air coming from around the nipple threads doesn't affect the bleeding process but I'm going to put some red grease around them anyway, at least on the new calipers. As there's no dirt around them they undo very easily so it's possible to turn them more than what's required. I've not got time to have another try today but hopefully I will tomorrow. It doesn't help that I only have one pair of axle stands so could mean I'm lifting the car up and down a few times if I still can't get them to bleed properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 Between the master and the callipers the front pressure wouldn't have been affected by the work done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 So you reckon I only need to re-bleed the rears then? I'll try in the morning and see how it goes but if I'm still not getting bubbles in the fluid I don't know what else I can do apart from start at the front and do the correct sequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Yes just the rear but the brakes might just need to bed in or you need to adapt to the new feel since their not seized now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Still can't get a firm pedal. Using the visibleed there is no air in the tube but fluid is dripping from the nipple thread on one caliper more than the other and that is just at 1/4 turn, any less and fluid won't come out of the nipple. Going to try the 2 man method and do all 4 corners. I've done 500ml of fluid already! Edit - the brakes aren't new just the calipers but it's the pedal feel bothering me not the braking performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liner33 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 So when you pump it up with the engine off does it firm up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Yes with the engine off I do, I meant with the engine running. I got the FIL to check the tube while I held the pedal. He said a surge of fluid came out from both sides, only did the rear again so there could've still been air in there. I've got to take it for a drive yet but it felt firmer on the driveway moving it back and forwards. It could be the pedal just feels abit softer now I've replaced everything. Will see after the drive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liner33 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 yep could just be thats how it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Just been out and they do feel better now and the pedal a little firmer. I think this is the best I'm going to get unless I change the front flexi hoses as well, that could help. Went up and down the dual carriageway braking from 70-40 a few times and it pulled up well. I'll see how it is the next few days going to work. So back to the original subject I think the visibleed is a good tool but probably best used with the 2 man method. Also this time we bled them with the engine running, on my own I did it with it off. If anyone gets a visibleed the plastic tab that holds the tube on the nipple snaps easily so I just used a cable tie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPhoboS Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 If you check this thread, it's something I've been doing recently with the sealey vs820 : http://www.350z-uk.com/topic/96202-bleeding-brakes-sealey-vs820-pressure-bleeder-review/?do=findComment&comment=1452922 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 I did see those when I was looking but as with the Eezibleed I'd need to buy the additional cap that bolts over the reservoir and the reviews for alot of these (whatever the brand) aren't that great, which is what put me off. For caps that screw on I'm sure they're fine and these pressure bleeders work well. This is why I was originally looking at the Mityvac but since then I've read they sometimes don't create enough vacuum, which being a hand pump is understandable. If you have a stubborn air bubble somewhere in the caliper it might not be enough to draw it out. I've heard that mentioned before about tilting them and I think the caliper must be the only place for an air bubble to get stuck between it and the master cylinder. So tilting and a gentle tap could certainly help. Nice link for the deadblow hammer as well I have been looking for a hide/copper hammer but I've been reluctant to pay £20+ for one, I think that would be a good alternative. What's the dimension of the striking area, it doesn't say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPhoboS Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 I can try and measure the deadblow hammer for you tonight, no problemo. Halfords sell one that's very similar if you happen to drop in.As mentioned in my thread, I believe the ABS module is the culprit in my case, thus triggering it with the Nissan software or braking hard somewhere a few times (IF your brakes work that is!).The universal cap that came with it is fine. It's version 3 of it, which retained a decent seal and didn't leak. Or you can just get a spare cap, and with the standard fitting kit just pop it onto the spare cap and you're done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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