mac Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Having severe difficulties with my m 3 for mondeo. Hit a pothole in the middle of january and runied front right tyre and slightly buckled alloy. had alloy repaired and put a new tyre on there. car had been all over the place while the spare was, pulling to both the left and right. spare was 16' space saver and actual wheels are 225 40 18 so hoped it was some kind of disparity. once i put the original wheel back on it was obvious that this was not the case. so took it in for four wheel allignment (proper 4 wheel allignment, not some of the others that are detailed on here). so thats done i drive out and its still the same. now obviously i recieved a before and after readout which showed that it wasnt out that much. went back to the place and was told to try swapping front wheels over and see how that went. Tried that without any luck. So back i went again and he put it back on the machine and went about checking the allignment of the subframe. now when the wheels where perfectly alligned, which i was shown, he said that the pins on either side of teh subframe should come out easily but it was a struggle to get them out. something wrong there. Also detailed that the camber might be off, and it was not possible to actually adjust it on my car so he tried to improvise. Attempted to adjust it through altering something on the front left. this actually made the car worse. he was baffled by this and suggested perhaps getting the rear subframe bushes changed. This soesnt make sense to me as i cant see how this will reallign the pins in the subframe correctly. Has anyone experienced anything similar to this and can offer some advice. Im getting sick of this now and i suppose the next stage is to look at the chasis. Thanks for any help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Welcome to WIM Can you put a photo of the report up so we can have a look? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Welcome to wim Much data is needed here, can you display or email me the printout so it can be validated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted February 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/2011/allignmentoutput.png link to allignment above. i really dont think its the wheel allignment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 I could be wrong but assuming LH is the N/S the front and rear camber looks too much to me for a standard mondeo? Did you have problems before hitting the pothole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted February 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 I could be wrong but assuming LH is the N/S the front and rear camber looks too much to me for a standard mondeo? Did you have problems before hitting the pothole? no problems before hand at all. its a zetec s so 18' alloys and different suspension set up to the standard mondeo i think also the camber isnt adjustable on the car. he tried to adjust the front right wheel somehow but it actually made the sterring wheel go more to the left.i would say its at 7-8 degrees to the left when its going in a straight line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Geo data looks fine.. Time to move on. 1: Bent drop-links 2: Anti-roll bar position 3: Rear sub frame location 4: Trim height (sprung body position) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 What is actually happening though as pulling left and right could mean alot of things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted February 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Geo data looks fine.. Time to move on. 1: Bent drop-links 2: Anti-roll bar position 3: Rear sub frame location 4: Trim height (sprung body position) thanks tony, appreciate that. obviously car was given a visual inspection before allignment, can all of these be checked like this? allignment guy says to change subframe bushes but mechanic says that wont solve it. he says its more than likely a problem at the front Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted February 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 How likely is it that hitting a bad pothole will throw out the chassis allignment? is replacing the subframe bushes likely to help the overall situation? (as an aside, would the polyurethane or standard rubber bushes be better?) Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 IMO you are more likely to damage the rim (as you did) or damage a suspension component than upsetting the geo. I suppose it would depend on the car though and the method it uses to adjust the angles? On the MK3 it's common to replace the rear subframe bushes for poly ones. If you haven't already have a look on MEG, loads of people have replaced them. When you replaced the tyre did you only do the one and was it the same brand/model as the other side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted February 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 IMO you are more likely to damage the rim (as you did) or damage a suspension component than upsetting the geo. I suppose it would depend on the car though and the method it uses to adjust the angles? On the MK3 it's common to replace the rear subframe bushes for poly ones. If you haven't already have a look on MEG, loads of people have replaced them. When you replaced the tyre did you only do the one and was it the same brand/model as the other side? Yes it was the same brand (kumho escta supra 225 40 18) and they had only been on about four weeks so there isnt a huge thread difference between the 2 fronts which might cause some sort of pull. And yes it was just the one replacement. Just running out of ideas as to what to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 What is actually happening though as pulling left and right could mean alot of things? Yeah could you be more specific about what the car is doing exactly ? And when it does it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted February 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 What is actually happening though as pulling left and right could mean alot of things? Yeah could you be more specific about what the car is doing exactly ? And when it does it ? on a flat surface, letting go of the wheel, the car will drift to the right but the steering wheel will actually drop to the left. on the motorway with say a slope of 1:40 the car will drift to the left quickly (i.e within 5.5 seconds i will cross from fast lane to slow lane, all four wheels). I read that nissan say anything over 7 seconds is fine. i know that my car didnt do this previously so it does drift both directions depending on the circumstances. its a strange issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Geo positions are fine so lets move on...... Are you sure the new wheel has the same off-set as the old wheel. Tyres have major influences with this sort of complaint, have the front wheels/tyres moved to the rear and test for any changes in the handling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Geo positions are fine so lets move on...... Are you sure the new wheel has the same off-set as the old wheel. Tyres have major influences with this sort of complaint, have the front wheels/tyres moved to the rear and test for any changes in the handling. He says the rim was repaired not replaced. Swapped fronts over but doesn't read like he's tried fronts on the rears, something else to do then If it's drifting left and right though I would be inclined to check the lower arm bushes as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted February 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 thanks for the replies. havent tried swapping the rears with the front. suppose its something else to try. Can you explain why those particular bushes would cause what im experiencing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 thanks for the replies. havent tried swapping the rears with the front. suppose its something else to try. Can you explain why those particular bushes would cause what im experiencing? If the bushings where stuffed and "floating" you have to make constant corrections to the steering.... The real issue to examine here is what happened between everything being ok and now? The Geo is fine, the wheel off-set is a question, new or moved tyres is another, make simple deliberate changes because the real problem is there staring you in the face..... Keep poking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted March 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Update So had the rear subframe bushes (4) replaced (a common problem on the mondeo) and the car seemed to become more solid after this. My mechanic also checked everything else while doing this and diagnosed that the inner tie rod ends were shot. Replaced these and went to allignment guy for allignment. He then said the the outer tie rods needed to be replaced as well. Mechanic says they arent sufficiently bad to require replacement but going to do them anyway. The allignment guy should have noticed these when he was doing the allignment three weeks ago in my opinion. Anyway another issue, have a creaking rattling noise coming from the left rear when going slow over bumpy roads. No present at all on m/way. Mechanic thinks shock and the noise can be simulated using the bounce test although the car does return to position in just one bounce and cant see any leakage in or around the shock. Noise is pretty bad. I was thinking that it may even be anto roll bar drop links or bushes. Has anyone encountered this problem before? Also inquired in local motorfactors about getting monroe shocks for 18' wheels and he said that he didnt have them for that wheel size and rang monroe to ask if they did them. Reply was no and he had no other make for that wheels size. Any recommendations for this? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Does sound like a drop-link, it's an easy test once the cars on a ramp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted March 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Does sound like a drop-link, it's an easy test once the cars on a ramp. do you think its the drop links because the bounce test returns it to normal in one movement. Can i ask what your method is for checking the drop links? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 With the car on the ground and steering centred try and move the link up-down, if you can then it's a gonner..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted March 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 just to clarify tony, its the rear offside i was talking about regarding the shock. Thanks for the advice. In your opinion would rear shocks or drop links being shot have a significant impact on vehicle allignment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted March 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 just came across this during a search http://www.fordmondeo.org/forum/showtopic....d/826750/all/1/ Tony you are quoted in a couple of entries: I'll be honest and say I doubt you'll fix it APART from maybe fixing a set of camber/castor plates to the strut top. From what I've read on here and talking to Wheels in Motion (alignment specialists) it is the drivers side front wheel that has extra camber on it from the weight of the engine. And I know myself, extra negative camber causes the wheel to push inwards. I've had my TDCi for 4 years now and its never NOT pulled to the left. But equally, it 'can' pull to the right if the road is sloping down to the right. Remember most roads slope down to the left when you're driving on the left. That doesn't help either ---------------------------------- I doubt if the wishbone will change the pull to the left. I changed both my wishbones and the pull is still there. I had 2 4 wheel alignments done and pull still there. I've changed the tyres and the pull is still there. Theoretically, the drivers side front suspension needs raising to see if the pull reduces. That way the negative camber will be lessened and that wheel should run straighter. I'm convinced that is where the problem lays and so was Tony at Wheels in Motion. When a wheel has negative camber (leaning in at top) it tends to want to go in the direction it is leaning. So with the Mondeo, the drivers side wheel is leaning in more at the top. As a result it wants to turn left. If you drove down the wrong side of most roads where the road cambers down to the right, the car will pull to the right. Try it preferably when nothing is coming the other way lol ------------------------------------------ do you believe that the problem in this circumstance is related to the drivers side camber? this situation is very similar to my own. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 I know a big problem with the MK3 was when they fitted 18" wheels, there's been a few complaints on MEG about tyre wear and pulling. Have a look through the WIM forum on there as that's the only place Tony posts, so you might find some more help - Link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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