conanius Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Good looking job there That is going to handle superbly now and you will be like this on the drive home. The car was pretty good at Bedford prior to these mods, but it felt a little... unstable through the faster corners, this should help give me a bit more feel and control as to whats going on. After these mods and ive got used to it and find these limits... I'll start looking into the coilovers Leads to another question.... I assume you desire progressive over-steer? Indeed, that would be the ideal situation. At the moment its very very controlled at the back, has to be really pushed to get it to come out at all, or when the tyres have got too hot and they start sliding. Even when it does come out in these situations it is very calm and controlled. Granted, im on about in the dry here on a nice smooth track ... ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Good.... Understand i need to keep the initial Geometry very white so that you can read the mods and the chassis?.... If i over-tune the chassis now you won't know what area to explain in the handling transitions. Basically i need you to analise areas that are easy to identify because understanding a "feel" is harder to tune than understanding a fact.... if you know what i mean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conanius Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Good.... Understand i need to keep the initial Geometry very white so that you can read the mods and the chassis?.... If i over-tune the chassis now you won't know what area to explain in the handling transitions. Basically i need you to analise areas that are easy to identify because understanding a "feel" is harder to tune than understanding a fact.... if you know what i mean Quite, we need to build on this base we now have. If it feels tight or loose or sketchy or flat or whatever, you can try and work out what that really means ... right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Good.... Understand i need to keep the initial Geometry very white so that you can read the mods and the chassis?.... If i over-tune the chassis now you won't know what area to explain in the handling transitions. Basically i need you to analise areas that are easy to identify because understanding a "feel" is harder to tune than understanding a fact.... if you know what i mean Quite, we need to build on this base we now have. If it feels tight or loose or sketchy or flat or whatever, you can try and work out what that really means ... right? Spot on .... Sometimes in various clubs/ customers they ask why i don't drive the car myself?... The reason is simple if i drive the car i would be setting it to my own standards, whereas in truth the chassis should be set to yours, it's my job to understand your standards, not convert them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Good.... Understand i need to keep the initial Geometry very white so that you can read the mods and the chassis?.... If i over-tune the chassis now you won't know what area to explain in the handling transitions. Basically i need you to analise areas that are easy to identify because understanding a "feel" is harder to tune than understanding a fact.... if you know what i mean Quite, we need to build on this base we now have. If it feels tight or loose or sketchy or flat or whatever, you can try and work out what that really means ... right? Spot on .... Sometimes in various clubs/ customers they ask why i don't drive the car myself?... The reason is simple if i drive the car i would be setting it to my own standards, whereas in truth the chassis should be set to yours, it's my job to understand your standards, not convert them. That explains why you've never driven mine then but I can see where you're coming from. How you feel the car behaves may be different to how I feel about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conanius Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 The big thing to take into account here I would say is this. You have two options .... Mr Geo tells me its handling perfect, and set up on settings ABC, but i'm not confident due to attribute X... thus I dont feel I can push so hard. I tell Mr Geo after he sets the car up to base setting that the car feels like its doing XYZ when Im doing ABC and he advises what can be done to amend it. It amends it, I feel more confident, i can push hard and thus go faster... ..... I wonder which option id like to go for ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si2k Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Watching with interest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 The big thing to take into account here I would say is this. You have two options .... Mr Geo tells me its handling perfect, and set up on settings ABC, but i'm not confident due to attribute X... thus I dont feel I can push so hard. I tell Mr Geo after he sets the car up to base setting that the car feels like its doing XYZ when Im doing ABC and he advises what can be done to amend it. It amends it, I feel more confident, i can push hard and thus go faster... ..... I wonder which option id like to go for ! Indeed. Other tuners would argue my logic but i think i'm right and i've used this formula for years..... Without getting big headed or anything like that i need to explain this..... If someone sends/ posts a Geo report i can tell them what the car is or isn't doing, i don't need to drive it or even see it because i know what the forces/ dynamics are. Add some modifications to the chassis then i need help from the software ( i'm not the Geometry god) so that some dynamic moments can be visualised, at this point the Human comes into the equation, how tuned is this customer and at what rate Hzps can he cope with? If the owner is good a communication then it's a fair bet the chassis can be tuned first time but most times it's the feedback from the "white settings" that really expresses how the owner reads the chassis.... Since i now have a initial calibration template i can tune the chassis "fine-tune" born from the owners comments. Or i could drive the car myself, set it to my standards, give him the key and say, there you go "perfect"....... but for who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Everything installed it was time to tune the chassis..... Obviously we were expecting everything to be out An hour later the base calibration was set The owner needs to get a feel of the car now, once done we can fine-tune the chassis to suit the drivers expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Obviously we were expecting everything to be out That's an understatement! Looking good now you've worked the WIM magic on it...I take it the caster is independently adjustable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Obviously we were expecting everything to be out That's an understatement! Looking good now you've worked the WIM magic on it...I take it the caster is independently adjustable? Yep, that's what's so good about these cars, all the adjusters are independent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 those pictures really exagerate the angles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 those pictures really exagerate the angles. The reason is it's easy to show the customer whats wrong and the operator can adjust from that screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conanius Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 That's an understatement! Looking good now you've worked the WIM magic on it...I take it the caster is independently adjustable? Probably fair for me to say that the cars geometry wasn't that bad when it came in, and when Tony took all the suspension apart to push in the new bushes and put on the new ARB's and brace bars that the geo will have been altered then. Would you agree with that Tony? On another note... get the car tomorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 That's an understatement! Looking good now you've worked the WIM magic on it...I take it the caster is independently adjustable? Probably fair for me to say that the cars geometry wasn't that bad when it came in, and when Tony took all the suspension apart to push in the new bushes and put on the new ARB's and brace bars that the geo will have been altered then. Would you agree with that Tony? On another note... get the car tomorrow Team wim would know the reason the chassis was so distressed was because of the work we did .... As you can see from the Geo reports i have made some small changes to adopt the mods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 That's an understatement! Looking good now you've worked the WIM magic on it...I take it the caster is independently adjustable? Probably fair for me to say that the cars geometry wasn't that bad when it came in, and when Tony took all the suspension apart to push in the new bushes and put on the new ARB's and brace bars that the geo will have been altered then. Would you agree with that Tony? On another note... get the car tomorrow Team wim would know the reason the chassis was so distressed was because of the work we did .... As you can see from the Geo reports i have made some small changes to adopt the mods I wonder how many people have done serious upgrades like this and just had a tracking done afterwards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Aw, don't blame the owners blame the industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Aw, don't blame the owners blame the industry. Yeah that's very true...how do you undo years of bad habits! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conanius Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Aw, don't blame the owners blame the industry. Yeah that's very true...how do you undo years of bad habits! I have to be honest. Before I got the S2000 I had no idea about the importance of getting the geo done on a car. I had never even considered getting it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Aw, don't blame the owners blame the industry. Yeah that's very true...how do you undo years of bad habits! Fortunately with the Internet the owner does with a highly visible "crash & burn" thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Aw, don't blame the owners blame the industry. Yeah that's very true...how do you undo years of bad habits! I have to be honest. Before I got the S2000 I had no idea about the importance of getting the geo done on a car. I had never even considered getting it done. I was the same until I found WIM...bet you don't go back to tracking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Aw, don't blame the owners blame the industry. Yeah that's very true...how do you undo years of bad habits! I have to be honest. Before I got the S2000 I had no idea about the importance of getting the geo done on a car. I had never even considered getting it done. I was the same until I found WIM...bet you don't go back to tracking! Would you like to rephrase that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Aw, don't blame the owners blame the industry. Yeah that's very true...how do you undo years of bad habits! I have to be honest. Before I got the S2000 I had no idea about the importance of getting the geo done on a car. I had never even considered getting it done. I was the same until I found WIM...bet you don't go back to tracking! Would you like to rephrase that Sorted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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