CIH Posted November 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2008 "dynamic toe" you mean during pitch (either under braking or acceleration) ? 'cos I actually had a quick try of that and couldn't get it to move more than a couple 1/10ths of a minute - I must be really weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 22, 2008 Report Share Posted November 22, 2008 "dynamic toe" you mean during pitch (either under braking or acceleration) ?'cos I actually had a quick try of that and couldn't get it to move more than a couple 1/10ths of a minute - I must be really weak. Â The manufacture calculates how the driving force, rolling resistance and aerodynamics will change the toe position.... This variable arena opens the "toe tendency" then suggests a mid static point. Â Do some tests..... Set the toe on some cars to 0 then "pull it down" then lift it "up" and watch the tendency.. Remember the holey grail is a dynamic 0, so by doing this "you" can decide the static position from the actual tendency. Â This is really useful on the modified car....... You might have one slammed with no movement on the suspension so you can assume a static 0 toe, whereas a OEM "tendency" may need 20' toe in/ out because once there on compression/release or "bump/ rebound" the toe moves to the desired 0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted November 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Been really quiet at work the past few days so nothings been on the Hunter recently. Spent some time revising the Video Tech vids. The videos state clearly front Toe alone won't cause a pull but it also states a rack mounted with a vertical slant (ie; not level) will cause toe tendancey to be uneven and a cause of bump steer. That seems slightly contradictory ? Or is it because bump steer is a sudden force ? Â Also had me thinking how many people mistake an off-set steering wheel position for a pull ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 The off-line steering arm will have a different radii than the wishbone, so on bump it's tendency will be greater. Â Wheel alignment is a shared angle whereas bump can be individual so on bump act independently making the car pull to one side. Â I find most drivers analyse the off-line steering wheel as a pull. On meeting the owner we need to define the difference between a physical need to resist pulling or a "steer" when the steerings centred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted November 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Ah right that makes sense. I'm pretty poor at clamping the wheel straight. Maybe I should buy one of those wheel clamp spirit level thingies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Ah right that makes sense.I'm pretty poor at clamping the wheel straight. Maybe I should buy one of those wheel clamp spirit level thingies... Â I always let the owner "finalise" the steering level..... Few reasons 1: Often the column is off-set so our perception of "level" differs 2: It's good PR 3: It removes any chance of a complaint..... "you set the position sir" cannot be denied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 Question for you...... Why do cars have camber angles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted December 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 Camber, wheel offset and SAI all combine to avoid problems associated with the forward motion and the opposing resistance don't they ? ALso, on turn, if the wheel is able to lean against the lateral force (that is, on a left turn the forces that the vehicle turns against) to improve grip (without increasing grip per se). Â uh, I didn't explain that very well.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 Your thinking..... Â What relationship do you think there is between the suspensions articulation radii and camber? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted December 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 We've already established camber moves toward negative on bump and positive on rebound. Lowered/stiffer suspension reduces the radii allowing for more aggrssive static camber, depending on how the driver wants the car to behave ofcourse. Â There's a discussion on the 200SXOC about camber. Some members are claiming to be running >2' front camber without excessive tyre wear. That seems unlikely to me ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 My point was to highlight the reason they have camber, this is to maintain the tyres contact patch during the suspensions articulation, not the direction "on/ off" bump. Â Compare something like an Omega with a static front camber of -1d 40' to a Scoob with -15'.... why? Â As for the 200sx -2d.... maybe depending on wheel off-sets and coil rates but unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted December 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Only thing I can think of is the scoob having power put through front and rear wheels ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Only thing I can think of is the scoob having power put through front and rear wheels ? Â Certainly for the toe positions but not the camber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted December 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Only thing I can think of is the scoob having power put through front and rear wheels ? Â Certainly for the toe positions but not the camber. Â That's interesting. Remind me to ask about that later. Â Is it because the Omega has soft squishy sofabarge suspension ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Yes and the articulation is vast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted December 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 could you go into more detail. How/why etc ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 could you go into more detail. How/why etc ? Â A nose heavy monolith like the Omega has a poor polor centre so in order to maintain traction during transition the camber angle needs to start very deep. Â As the transition initiates the damper needs a very long stroke to absorb the sprung body roll, this "stroke" radii is vast compared to something like the Scoob whereas the stroke radii very short, consequently the static camber position is sedate by comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted December 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 transition ? do you mean from DA to lock (as the SR migrates) ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 transition ? do you mean from DA to lock (as the SR migrates) ? Â No sorry, bad terminology.... "transition" as in weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted December 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 fore/aft or across the axle ? or both ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 fore/aft or across the axle ? or both ? Â Diagonal transition, so the outer wheel, it's at this point the camber maintains the contact patch during the suspension compression and the subsystems radii. Â A better suspension system with less transition could assume a lower radii so a lower (not so deep) camber position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted December 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 That's surprising as I've always associated deep camber with an aggressive set-up. If you'd asked, I would have said the Scoob would have run more camber than the Omega. Â I suppose 1d40" would be aggresive for the Imprezza ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 The difference in chassis design between the Omega and the Scoob means the Scoob doesn't need huge amounts of camber to maintain the tyres saturation grip limits. Â This is a very different story if the cars were modified and the owner wants more advanced handling but there's a consequence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted December 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Doesn't the Omega suffer from such a big camber angle ie; forward stability on the autobahns ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Doesn't the Omega suffer from such a big camber angle ie; forward stability on the autobahns ? Â In what sense.... are we talking aerodynamics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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