Tony Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 Your drop down "options" menu, does it look like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted November 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 Yes, but with a few options missing (IIRC): Â Zoom In Do not allow one rear target to be blocked Adjust to half Tolerance - I think tolerance can be adjusted but have never done so Additional measeurement procedures - If this is for secondary angles, the option is elsewhere. Â How come your toe angle bar-graphs are grey BTW ? Presumeably every car has a Toe OEM figure ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 Yes, but with a few options missing (IIRC):Â Zoom In Do not allow one rear target to be blocked Adjust to half Tolerance - I think tolerance can be adjusted but have never done so Additional measeurement procedures - If this is for secondary angles, the option is elsewhere. Â How come your toe angle bar-graphs are grey BTW ? Presumeably every car has a Toe OEM figure ? Â The reason for the screen shot is so i get a better understanding of what "abilities" the machine software has. This will help us in the future. Â The reason the Toe fields are gray is because the screen shot is with the vehicle raised so Toe adjustment is not live. Â Additional measurement procedures opens many other fields, it's a shame you don't have them but we can work around that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted November 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 oh yeah ofcourse I didn't twig the "lower axle". Â what fields btw ? I may atleast have some of them ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 oh yeah ofcourse I didn't twig the "lower axle". what fields btw ? I may atleast have some of them ?  Is it wise i tempt you into areas that may not be available?..... It's best we work with what you have.  Out of interest i had a crash repaired Leon in this week with a pull left..... cambers looked good, castor's also good but a bit low -30' NSF. As you know the castor's not adjustable on this car (wrong) it is if you release all the subframe bolts and shunt the chassis...... This gives around 45' worth of adjustment.  Now plus 15' the pull remains, and the reason was....... A tyre bias lateral pull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted November 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Almost ironic isn't it ? Were they new tyres ? Â I can imagine trying the shunt and pushing the whole car across on the ramp. How did the SAI and IA react ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Almost ironic isn't it ? Were they new tyres ? I can imagine trying the shunt and pushing the whole car across on the ramp. How did the SAI and IA react ?  The shunt is longitudinal so the camber, SAI, IA weren't effected.  Initially the tyres weren't considered because we had impact damage at the chassis, once this was corrected there was no other reason than the tyres for the pull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted November 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Couldn't see any problems with the bulkhead on that Saab we had intoday. To be honest it probably didn't drive that bad. Anyway, cheap directional tyres put on the rear and the 40psi pressure was dropped somewhat.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Couldn't see any problems with the bulkhead on that Saab we had intoday. To be honest it probably didn't drive that bad.Anyway, cheap directional tyres put on the rear and the 40psi pressure was dropped somewhat....  Well i had one in today and it was awfull...... 3" crack.... It's a worthy repair since SAAB charge £500- £600 for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted November 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Shame I hadn't browsed the Saab thread prior to looking at the grey 93 a few days ago. I had read it before but couldn't remembver the details *shrugs* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Shame I hadn't browsed the Saab thread prior to looking at the grey 93 a few days ago. I had read it before but couldn't remembver the details *shrugs* Â The problem is becoming more pronounced.... I get two or three a week with the same complaint, "tram-lining" to the max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted November 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2008 Would excessive Cator cause heavy steering ? Assuming correct Thrust Angle, I was thinking it would be be because the SR isn't shifting across the tyre ? Â This isn't work related (haven't been in due to a sprained ankle) but a discussion on a car forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Yes, it's for this reason cars had power steering (years back), obviously there's other reasons for power nowadays. Â Sorry to read your off work :closedeyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted November 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2008 Had a right old couple of days. 1st job back after a week off was a Sprinter Van. I really hate measuring ride-height when it gives specific target figures from given points but doesn't give a proper description of where those points are. I did get to do Jacking Compensation for the first time though. Â And today I had an NA Eunos which was absolutly peculiar. Did all the pre-geo tests and was happy. Tried to adjust the rear and, despite what I did, I couldn't get the OSR camber any lower than -1'40 and the NSR any higher than -30". Plenty fed-up I locked it down and did the front. Printed off the reports and the rear had shifted to~ -50" either side. Hunter didn't want to tell me the spec for rear camber, presumeably because it was lowered on what looked like coilovers. I had figured somewhere around -1' was probably a fair figure so it had gone where I wanted but I really hate geometry movement that I can't account for. Does my head in no-end.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 16, 2008 Report Share Posted November 16, 2008 Do you use/ have an Autodata book? the reason i ask is the measuring points for the VW are much clearer there..... As for the Mazda it reads like the rear subframe is twisted transversely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted November 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 The Service techs have Autodata books for things like timing belt replacement procedure. Duon't know about geo data... How would the twisted subframe account for the different readings for the Eunos ? I could understand but when the readings changed I head fell clean off. Could the frame had shifted somehow ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 That's a shame because the Autodata Geo book gives very clear images of where to measure on cars like the VW. Â On the Mazda if you have cams that max out in opposing directions then it's a transverse bend to the chassis..... Longitudinal if it happens on the front with castor. Â With the change you describe i have no explanation other than maybe there was a error with the rear slip plates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted November 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 Sticky/Stuck slip plates sounds logical. Â Anyway, did an A4 cabriolet today and it was nice and straight forward with no perplexing "activity". Even the suspension options code was on the spare wheel-well placard/sticker and it's almost never there! 'Cos it went well I got a picture of the car and kept a summery report for my personal little portfolio. Tyre was far worse than the geo would have suggested though..... Â Had an early A3 in for puncture which showed classic signs of excessive negative camber on both front tyres so that should on the ramp Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 20, 2008 Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 Remember the OEM settings can only be suggestions not law...... You should by now be able to recognise what type of wear the tyre has, albeit camber or castor or whatever, if you can see the wear and the results suggest there shouldn't be any then "adapt" and manufacture a custom setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted November 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 Remember the OEM settings can only be suggestions not law...... You should by now be able to recognise what type of wear the tyre has, albeit camber or castor or whatever, if you can see the wear and the results suggest there shouldn't be any then "adapt" and manufacture a custom setup. Â Oh I agree but you also told me not to trust the wear pattern so I look at both and try to draw my own conclusions. Plus I wouldn't expect -58" camber (OEM -1'30" ish, within tolerance anyway) and minimal toe to cause almost the whole outer 50% of the tread to be heavily worn (N/S/R tyre). It was an MOT job so neither I or our test dude found any issues with the car itself. Â I decided it may have been a historical issue previously rectified but the tyre still displayed the wear pattern. Â Would you agree, by the way, as Hunter's video tech says, that failure to rotate wheels across axles can cause heel and toe wear on the outer tyre shoulder ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 20, 2008 Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 Your assessment as historical wear is very apt and a good call given the parameters you had. Â You are the expert and you conclude the right method of correction "or not"... Generally i find handling problems or handling developments an easy fix, whereas tyre wear retains a history we're not privileged to, sometimes you can interview the owner and through discussion find the criminal but most times your flying blind other than the data on the screen and the visible "historic" wear on the tyre. Â Video tech suggests rotating the tyres but can you explain why this would stop heel-and-toe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted November 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 um, because the rear tyres will experience srub on turn because there's no steering action on the rear (4WS not withstanding) ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 um, because the rear tyres will experience srub on turn because there's no steering action on the rear (4WS not withstanding) ? Â I would suggest otherwise.... During braking the nose submarines lightening the load at the rear, if the dampers are tiered then the pulse of the coil will potentate the tyre on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted November 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2008 Had that Audi A3 1.8T 4x4 in today and again the rig failed to confirm what the tyres suggested. The rig also lied to me and told me the upper and lower transverse links had eccentric adjusters (rear). Â Fortunatly Toe was ok and a big pry-bar and lifting the axle brought the camber back into line. Still got some movement after lowering the car but only 2" and it was in the right direction. This, time I think it may been the bushes settling ? Got a Summary report and piccy but I forgot to bring them home. Â edit: Oh I nearly forgot. Does excessive Toe exagerate negative camber ? Reason I ask, that Audi showed feathered wear along the inner edges (confirmed as toe-out was beyond OEM) but also a smooth band along the extreme inner edge but only -5" camber left and right (within spec, but more than ideal) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 22, 2008 Report Share Posted November 22, 2008 "WE LOVE PICCY'S".......... Sometimes the "adjustment" images are generic so no surprises there, also the wheels raised measurements and the lowered measurements will differ...... 5'/ 10' is common. Â Toe has a "static figure" but a desired dynamic figure of 0 for all domestic cars..... If the toe is dynamically wrong then it will generate wear either direction if camber is other than 0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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