Vibration problem? Balance or something else?

[1stade]

Found my way here after doing reading on alignment and balancing, I’m a pretty naïve average customer, but intelligent and inquisitive so don’t mind doing research and listening to experts. Forgive me my cheekiness, but I hope you might be able to help me out….

 

Symptom

Have a mondeo that’s developed fairly severe vibration whilst driving at around 50. It starts at around 40, and gets better beyond 60. It’s also accentuated if I push the accelerator hard, ie. The faster I accelerate the worse the vibration.

 

Background

I had a new coil fitted, after the previous one broke, a few weeks ago. The wife drives the car and says she noticed a dreadful noise the day before I take it to for an mot!. So I get a new coil fitted (front offside – right(?)), prior to the MOT, the garage say the coil was split. I could see it was out of position, but hadn’t seen the split.

 

After fitting, the next time I take the car out I notice this vibration. Previously I had very very minor vibration at around 75 but this new vibration clearly happened after the new spring.

 

I also had a new rear sub frame fitted last year (at another garage), and was never convinced that the car was properly set up (when I went to pick up the car I could see from about 30 yards away the rear wheels were pointing way off to the right , and so the lithuanian mechanic (and his three words of english) and I tried to put it right, but was never convinced it was all done properly).

 

Thus when I got the vibration after the coil, I thought I’ll check the balance and alignment and potentially remove my concerns and vibrations, and if not fixed go back to the garage that fitted the coil.

 

I had the alignment and balance done yesterday (elsewhere), and can attach the reports if needed (it’s from one of the Hunter machines).

However the vibration still exists, it’s reduced a little after the balancing and alignment but it’s still there.

 

I have a Haines manual, and in it it states something along the lines, “in order to replace a coil, the front subframe will need lowering, otherwise you’ll do more damage than good.â€

 

When I went to pick up the car after the coil was fitted I said “I believe you had to lower the front subframe in order to change the springâ€, they replied “No we didn’t need to do that, but it was a bugger to get the thing done, things had seized, and took longer than expectedâ€.

 

My immediate thought was oh dear what have they done, and now wonder if they bent or damaged any element of what I would call the driveshaft.

 

Any ideas? Are my assumptions probably correct, or will it be simply a balance issue?

 

My other observation is that although I had 4 wheels balanced, there are no weights on the front wheels to be seen. I can see weights added to the rears, but surely I would see weights on the front wheels? (I dropped off and picked up).

 

My real problem is historically I’ve never felt that I can trust any one of these garages I’ve used. I keep trying another, but don’t really know enough about the cars, and I won’t even go into the nightmare I had with the official london ford dealers and the way they lied to me about servicing, that drove me to try these other garages.

 

Any help gratefully appreciated.

[Tony]

Hello

You don't need to lower the sub-frame to fit a coil.... It's probable the front wheels are out of balance since the odds both didn't need weights is astronomical.

 

Personally i feel the new coil is the wrong rate.......Why did you only fit one anyway?

[1stade]

Hello

You don't need to lower the sub-frame to fit a coil.... It's probable the front wheels are out of balance since the odds both didn't need weights is astronomical.

 

Personally i feel the new coil is the wrong rate.......Why did you only fit one anyway?

 

Thanks Tony.

I don't/didn't know better

Simply put the spring was broken, and the garage said I needed a new one! They didn't advise me I should do them in pairs (is that what your'e saying?). Does rate refer to strength/length of spring? Would that cause vibration in a straight line?

 

Your comment on the weights was my view. They did the tracking as well (and I think I know your view on that!), so would they do the balancing after the tracking, or would it not matter?

 

Should I go back to garage 1 for a balance that maybe they didn't perform! and then go back to garage that did the coil, if vibration still exists?

 

I'm tempted to say a visit to Chesham is in order, but in truth I don't have weird tyre wear etc. just this vibration. As in reality its the car the kids travel in, and the wife drives 5 days a week, I just want to make it safe.

 

Again, appreciate your time - thanks.

[Tony]

Be strong..... Go back to garage 1 and insist they balance the wheels again.... Then garage2 and explain before the coil fitment you had no vibration, after you did... It's up to them to sort the problem not you.

[1stade]

Thanks Tony.

 

Will be back to the garages tomorrow, though maybe just the second one who fitted the coil, after what I've seen tonight.

 

Had a look and the coil is not straight around the strut. It's clearly banana shaped. When I took it in to have fixed before, the old coil was similarly shaped, (but significantly more so), and they said it was cracked.

 

Is this bad fitting or maybe indicative of another underlying problem?

 

On my previous comment about lowering the subframe, the Haines manual states..

 

"The subframe MUST be lowered when removing the front suspension strut, otherwise damage will occur to the lower arm rear hydro-bush"

 

Now for the STOOPID question, does the strut need to come out for the coil to be changed? My assumption is that it was?

 

Also IMPORTANTLY, is this safe to drive? I have a 260 mile round trip to see family this weekend

Thanks

Adrian.

[Tony]

Thanks Tony.

 

Will be back to the garages tomorrow, though maybe just the second one who fitted the coil, after what I've seen tonight.

 

Had a look and the coil is not straight around the strut. It's clearly banana shaped. When I took it in to have fixed before, the old coil was similarly shaped, (but significantly more so), and they said it was cracked.

 

Is this bad fitting or maybe indicative of another underlying problem?

 

On my previous comment about lowering the subframe, the Haines manual states..

 

"The subframe MUST be lowered when removing the front suspension strut, otherwise damage will occur to the lower arm rear hydro-bush"

 

Now for the STOOPID question, does the strut need to come out for the coil to be changed? My assumption is that it was?

 

Also IMPORTANTLY, is this safe to drive? I have a 260 mile round trip to see family this weekend

Thanks

Adrian.

 

What the manual quotes is "ideal world" in reality the strut is removed without dropping the sub-frame.

 

Before you consider replacing the remaining coil you need to know whats gone wrong with this one...... As far as i know it's been fitted upside down?

 

I don't feel there is an underlying problem since a snapped coil is quite common and your problem only started when the coil was replaced.

[jammy]

Hi there...i was getin same sort of vibration' on accel and harder i planted it to worse it got.........turned out to be the n/s drive shaft was slightly out of shape..just a thought as if it was still ther after balencing "IF" it was done right that is!

 

 

just a thought and worth jackin the front up and spinnin the wheel's whilst checkin the shaft's condition whislt turnin

[1stade]

Again thanks all. I only question underlying problem, in that this coil is portraying same "behaviour" as previous. Of course I never saw the previous snapped coil, but I did see it bent like this (but worse).

 

 

Pic can be seen at...

 

The other side where the coil is is symmetrical around the strut is

 

 

If I'm breaking forum rules for posting links, apologies.

 

The annoying thing is first long trip in a while planned this weekend, family get together and my mother was in tears when I said I'm not sure I dare bring the kids over, all because I'd hate this to crack again whilst on a longish trip. So the solution is £150 quid on a hire car, just to make sure I don't let my kids, my parents, brother, nieces and family down.

 

I guess this time I need to see under the car myself, instead of relying on just their word. They may well be being straight up/legit, but no mention of "should do replacement of both springs" when they did the first, and 5 weeks on I wouldn't expect to see a similar problem again.

 

Thanks

Adrian

[Rich]

You can post as many photos as you like mate, have added the image tags so they show in the thread

 

I'm wondering if the shock/piston is bent for the spring to be like that

[Tony]

The middle helix is off-line.......Take it back and tell them to sort it!!

[jammy]

? Whats the middle helix tony ?

[Tony]

? Whats the middle helix tony ?

 

The loop of the coil.

[jammy]

ah rite the onkly reeason i said drive shaft is that the shaft may have drop down to far and a bearing may have fell off the inner shaft end...and could be jammin up or just rollin about in the cv boot.....

[Tony]

ah rite the onkly reeason i said drive shaft is that the shaft may have drop down to far and a bearing may have fell off the inner shaft end...and could be jammin up or just rollin about in the cv boot.....

 

Normally you would hear that.....especially in a lock.

[1stade]

ah rite the only reason i said drive shaft is that the shaft may have drop down to far and a bearing may have fell off the inner shaft end...and could be jammin up or just rollin about in the cv boot.....

 

Normally you would hear that.....especially in a lock.

 

I wonder if it is something like that. Although the pic looks like it's the middle helix (you can't see the top helix), the top three helix are in line, and only the bottom one is out, in relation to them. However the bottom one can't be out, as it's fixed/held in position. So in reality I'm saying the spring appears to be being pushed out to the right (as you look at it, from the top). So I'm wondering if there's something wrong with the thrust bearings (?), at the top that would push the alignment out.

 

Although it's probably not worth anything the strut looks like it sits straight/ all nicely bolted in from the top, ie. looking from the bonnet.

 

I'm at work and the cars at the garage (they said they will sort it today), and will be giving them a call soon for appraisal. But I want to see the car on the ramp before I depart with it (me thinks).

 

Thanks

Adrian.

[scorps]

i'd insist on a test drive b4 releasing payment

[jammy]

Test would be good idea but are you havin to pay then

[1stade]

Update.....Not satisfactory.

 

I've picked the car up, but have not had to pay anything. They say the vibration is down to wheel balance, and swapped two (one clearly balanced with front nearside which had no weights) and the vibration has gone away, but it hasn't.

It might not be so severe but it's still there. The vibration maybe starts at about 30-35 now.

 

They haven't changed the coil, they seem to think it's a non issue, but I've stated I'm not happy. They say if I push (which I am doing) they'll change it but couldn't do it today, they need to dig invoices and get the coil changed under warranty etc. My view is there's still something causes the coil to deform like that.

 

They did say theres a clicking noise on the outer CV joint as it turned, and I did hear it myself, o maybe the CV joint is the culprit? Or is that just another symptom?. (I did get to see it on the ramp, and wasn't completely convinced the drive shaft was running true).

 

So my major question is would you consider this spring in this slightly deformed state safe? Got a 300 mile round trip with the wife and kids this weekend.

 

 

My hunch is, it probably is safe, but would fail at some point - just don't know when.

 

Second question is what's the cost for CV joint replacement/ or half shaft & CV?

 

Third is, Tony do you do this stuff?

 

Thanks everyone, appreciate any comments, but my real concern, is should I be driving this like this on long journey with wife and kids etc. Depending on what you say, I might be hiring a car in an hour or two.

 

Thanks

Adrian.

[alnug]

i think there maybe a few issues here the CV joint maybe out and also the coil.

 

First off..are you SURE that they even changed the coil?? is there any accident damage?

 

It seems that with the multiple of problems with the car I wouldn't feel confident on driving it with the family for the 300 miles if it did happen to break down you're going to be a long way from home...plus you've got the wife and kids to worry about.

[jammy]

What year is your mondeo ???

 

 

im wondering if it "is" actually the rite spring for the car ? It just dosnt seem rite :

 

could be mile's off though

[Dieselman]

What year is your mondeo ???

 

 

im wondering if it "is" actually the rite spring for the car ? It just dosnt seem rite :

 

could be mile's off though

I'd agree. It almost looks as if the coil is wound the wrong way for the spring cup so is being pushed over. Alternatively it's a cheap spring and badly made.

[jammy]

I get the fealing im lookin at a mk2 shock with a mk1 spring on it tbh..

 

 

reason : if that is a mk2 you drive,then the spring should be the same width (ruffly)all the way down it as the base of the shock where it sit's...on a mk1 the bottom end of the spring loop turn's in more as thay run a diffrent stlye set up on the mk1 and the spring's sit's ind side the cup where there is two lug/locator's for it to sit.

 

 

i could be wrong on this and hope what ive rote make's sence

 

 

tony what do you make on this theory ???

[Tony]

As far as we know it's been fitted up-side-down

[Rich]

What year is your mondeo ???

 

 

im wondering if it "is" actually the rite spring for the car ? It just dosnt seem rite :

 

could be mile's off though

 

Avatar info says - Ford Mondeo 1.8 LX 02 - so I'd say it's a MK3.

 

I didn't think the MK2 shocks had holes in the bottom like in the photo, mine don't anyway!

[jammy]

Ive just been and looked at all the shock's i have in me shed lol...and yeah dont look like mk1 or 2's

 

think it's the lack of caffine