Rich Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 The FIL parked in my drive earlier and when he went to leave the car wouldn't start. It wouldn't even turn over. I had to tow him home, thankfully down the same road. I've been searching online but can't find much. I've seen mentions of the ignition system or starter motor wiring or it's actually dead. Maybe a relay but I'm not sure what ones. Starter motor is under the car above the driveshaft so a pig to get to for testing. How do you test a relay? Unfortunately don't have spares to swap them over. Although we did swap one that was the same as another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMARTLY Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 What car has he got? Did you try to bump it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2020 Same car that's in the thread title No didn't try to jump start it as it's a diesel but there is nothing when you turn the key. So difficult to diagnose. Checked the starter motor connections yesterday and they seem ok but it could still be dead. It's a shame there aren't any scrap yards any more so we could go and grab some relays and fuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 12, 2020 Report Share Posted January 12, 2020 So the dash lights up and it won't turn over, does ir click when the key is turned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2020 Yep lights on the dash come on, but it won't turn over and no click. Scanned it for codes but all clear. I think it's the starter motor, a relay or wiring issue. He'll probably have to get an auto electrician out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 12, 2020 Report Share Posted January 12, 2020 Try rocking the car in 2nd gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMARTLY Posted January 12, 2020 Report Share Posted January 12, 2020 My bad, thought you had added it the post about your Honda !! So has this diesel Fiesta got one battery or two? Think some diesels have two. Just wondering if one is dead ? Think the later cars with electronic ignition can't be jump started with a battery as it can put 18v through electronics. So you can switch on ignition, does go plug light light up and then go out or it too warm outside? Think you should be able to push start the car unless it's auto. He's still got a nice hill to go down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffers Posted January 13, 2020 Report Share Posted January 13, 2020 If you can't hear a click in the engine bay when you try to turn it over, it sounds like the solenoid either faulty of not getting power. (May not be relay controlled) Can you get to it to see if it's getting 12v using a meter or 12v lamp? Visual check which you've probably done is the earths to the motor or engine if there isn't a direct one to the motor. Probably not the same as my ex girlfriends Fiesta as it was a 2008 petrol but the earth braid to the engine had decayed so if it fell a certain way wouldn't make a good enough connection. Randomly it just wouldn't turn over and no click. A quick test would be to get a jumper cable and take it from the earth of the battery and onto the metal of the engine/starter/alternator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2020 On 12/01/2020 at 13:04, SMARTLY said: My bad, thought you had added it the post about your Honda !! So has this diesel Fiesta got one battery or two? Think some diesels have two. Just wondering if one is dead ? Think the later cars with electronic ignition can't be jump started with a battery as it can put 18v through electronics. So you can switch on ignition, does go plug light light up and then go out or it too warm outside? Think you should be able to push start the car unless it's auto. He's still got a nice hill to go down No only one battery, it's old tech! Glow plug light comes on but I think the car would turn over if those were faulty. I towed him up the hill and he coasted it down and in to the driveway! 11 hours ago, Geoffers said: If you can't hear a click in the engine bay when you try to turn it over, it sounds like the solenoid either faulty of not getting power. (May not be relay controlled) Can you get to it to see if it's getting 12v using a meter or 12v lamp? Visual check which you've probably done is the earths to the motor or engine if there isn't a direct one to the motor. Probably not the same as my ex girlfriends Fiesta as it was a 2008 petrol but the earth braid to the engine had decayed so if it fell a certain way wouldn't make a good enough connection. Randomly it just wouldn't turn over and no click. A quick test would be to get a jumper cable and take it from the earth of the battery and onto the metal of the engine/starter/alternator. Solenoid on the starter? Be easier to replace the starter wouldn't it if that's faulty? Haven't tested it with a meter (I hate using those things) and don't have a 12v lamp - maybe I should get one. The starter is under the engine though and the undertray needs removing. Ford put it in the most awkward place possibly! Visual checks look fine and I did read about the earth cable on these. It's been cleaned up and where it connects to the bodywork but no joy. Does connecting the earth from the jump lead to the engine/starter/alternator check each part or just the system as a whole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffers Posted January 13, 2020 Report Share Posted January 13, 2020 It probably would actually - last solenoid I swapped was on my Escort!! I'm only suggesting earthing the engine block as that will give a good earth path to the starter and solenoid. As the engine is on rubber mounts, there is no path to earth so needs to be on each connector but large earth paths like the starter and alternator have a separate braid. (Generally - not sure on yours) because of the additional current draw. Humour me and just see if there is anything different. (extra clicks, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2020 I'll see how he got on today with it and will get him to try connecting a jump lead from the battery to the engine and see what happens. I suspect not much though. He had only replaced all of the shocks and springs the day before this happened. That's why he was parked on my driveway, he was returning the trolley jack. Then he had to take it back to get access to the starter motor. My money is on that being faulty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Car is fixed. His nephew has been staying with him sometimes so they took the starter motor off, connected it up and nothing happened. Ordered a new one and now it's starting fine. I would've thought you'd at least get a clicking noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 They click if the solenoid is faulty, so it seems the issue was the voltage going in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Yeah must've been completely dead then. I'll have to ask them but how do you test a starter motor once you've taken it off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMARTLY Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Put 12 volts across it !! I guess you could strip it and check the brushes unless they are visible / removable from the outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffers Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Good that it's now working. 5 hours ago, Tony said: They click if the solenoid is faulty, so it seems the issue was the voltage going in. A bit of both - you hear the clicking because the motor isn't spinning which you don't in normal operation as the cranking is louder. The solenoid could have faulty contacts and still pulling them in, but often it is the motor itself. The connections depend on the starter but usually marked as S, B and a terminal that's earthed but has no marking or sometimes marked GND. GND and B have thick connectors, Solenoid has a small connector as it needs very little current. The solenoid is effectively a big relay inside connecting the B the to the + of the motor. If you put negative to GND and 12v to the solenoid, you should hear it click trying to engage the contacts to join B to motor terminal. The motor won't spin unless you put b to positive as well. (B and GND would have to be quite thick if the solenoid works and you wanted to test that part. Old mains cable will do it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 So could you test it with say a portable jump starter? The negative lead would go to the GND and positive to where the red cable would go? I assume it would be red, it's been years since I replaced one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffers Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 Yes that would do it. There will be 3 connections, ground, and the positives for the solenoid and motor. The motor will be the thick connector, solenoid a smaller one. Connect the ground and motor, then bridge the positive of the motor to the solenoid. The solenoid should kick in and the motor should spin. Or you could just test the solenoid as above first. I'll see if I can find a piccy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffers Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 This one looks like the ground or earth will be the body. The large bolt on the left will be power from the battery. The small terminal in the upper middle will be the solenoid positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 Thanks Geoff, I'll have to remember that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyelcomb Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 If you're testing a starter off the car I recommend putting it in a vice or at least put your foot on it. There can be quite a twist the opposite way the motor runs and it can give your fingers quite a whack when it jumps around. No need to ask how I know that... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 Thanks for the tip Andy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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