Mercedes Pre Tyre Change Geometry Check - How does it look?

[MLAM]

Hi all,

 

WIM may have seen this already on another forum but I thought I'd post it here to get more feedback.

 

The car in question is a Mercedes E220 CDi Avantgarde Auto Saloon (facelift)

 

Please note the tyres have yet to be replaced and they are worn heavily on the inside, the car has been inspected by a MB Specialist and they have given it the thumbs up in regards to mechanical condition

 

Below is a picture of a 4 wheel alignment report done on a John Bean system

 

 

Now the guy who did the report said Castor readings are not needed hence no reading, he also stated the front camber is within spec which I beg to differ and only the front toe is adjustable on these cars.

 

The camber looks a million miles out to me but I am unsure how much can be pulled back in.

 

any feedback appreciated.

 

Thanks

[Tony]

Hello

He is talking rubbish. The front camber is way to deep and since the castor is adjustable it should have been measured. As things stand fitting front camber adjuster bolts is not really going to help because their adjustment range is so small. The most probable reason why both fronts are equally wrong is coil spring sag.

[NickT]

Tony, does it not frustrate you seeing others do half a job? (Especially from a main dealer who should know thier own particular cars)

[Tony]

It embarrasses me it i'm honest. I had a Lexus in yesterday that had just been done and i was astounded that the owner  even managed to drive the car here.

[MLAM]

Thanks for the reply guys.

 

Tony, the fronts aside, is the rear camber and toe adjustable on these cars or are they fixed?

 

The rear toe looks out too as does the O/S Camber.

[Tony]

Rear toe is adjustable, not the camber, but it's position isn't a problem if i'm honest.

[MLAM]

Rear toe is adjustable, not the camber, but it's position isn't a problem if i'm honest.

Thanks for confirming Tony,

 

What would cause the rear toe to go out of spec?

 

This tyre specialist place also said the rear toe isn't adjustable so they would have left it they said....

[Tony]

Any adjustable angle is adjustable because by design it's position was expected to change? Reads a bit odd i know but chassis design nowadays is subject to certain stresses that a CAD will display eventual movement, and for this reason the manufacture installs adjustable compensator's.

 

The issue most MB owners have outside of the dealers is the fact........

 

1: The adjusters ( front ) are not pre-installed, so the shop would need to hold/ acquire specific adjuster bolts, five types in total.

2: Fitting the adjuster bolts is an absolute ass of a job and even the dealers get it wrong

3: The adjustment range per-bolt is pants, or lets say very little but...... you can bounce more adjustment from one angle by adjusting another angle.... now i'm really confusing things.

3 a: In your case the front issue is the camber, i could fit an adjustment bolt ( small range ) to the castor angle which would dramatically displace the toe angle, this when corrected would move the camber further than a direct placement camber adjuster bolt.

3 b: Balancing indirect adjustments indirectly proportionality is near imposable, so it's wise to address the real criminal ( coils ) than play a game of chance around it.

 

Fact is looking at the data is the shop either misunderstood the data acquired or was unwilling to correct the data gathered due to the reasons explained above, i think both in your case.

 

You need to look in the side of logic? If one front camber position was incorrect then there's an element of road trauma that could require an adjuster bolt ( albeit ) a small range. Since both front cambers are symmetrically incorrect then there must be a mechanical reason and historically this is due to the sprung chassis lowering ( coil sag )

[liner33]

I had a w210 e class and the springs both sagged and then broke before the car was 6 years old , very common issue

[adam_r]

tony, liner..

 

is this common on the merc's or heavier cars?

 

I have not really come across spring sag in other cars... or not so noticable anyway

[liner33]

Common on Mercs for some reason don't know if any other makes are effected , my w210 had the big 3.2 diesel a really heavy lump

[Tony]

Cars like the Merc have very long springs so collectively the sag is more apparent.

[parthiban]

Aggressive inner tyre wear on a Merc, this seems familiar 

 

If it's not too far from you, get it sorted at WIM 

[liner33]

I only noticed my springs had sagged when I ripped the exhaust off the car

[Tony]

Not a nice way to find out

[parthiban]

Is this sagging issue only on the 210s or later models as well?

[liner33]

The 211's as well AFAIK

[Tony]

All cars on coils suffer coil sag eventually but more evident if the coils are long.

[MLAM]

Hi Tony,

 

Thank you very much for the detailed reply.

 

Looks like some others have asked a question I was going to ask also

 

I've attached a picture of the car, I know W211's are a tad nose heavy but to me my dads one seems excessive.

 

The previous owner said he replaced the rear springs last year with MB ones, he has not replaced the front ones in his ownership.

 

My local MB parts guy initially said it does look nose heavy but then another W211 parked up and it did not look a million miles off our one....

 

[Tony]

What you need is information from MB for the cars body trim height? The is the minimum distance between the center of the wheel up-to the center of the wheel arch. If the body is lower than the trim recommendation then you know for sure the coils have sagged.