Tony Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 Concerned:- This is the reply back...."The springs he has supplied are designed for the US model only. They are not designed for the EU models so I recommend that he replaces them for the correct springs as a matter of urgency." I cannot answer why there is a difference in the US/ EU other than the coil rates in the US are normally softer than the EU... this is maybe why the car immediately displayed a significant drop? The correct coils are available here in the UK at £173 + vat. The part number for the European spring set is different, but I don't know why as I believe the suspension set up isn't any different. I have Eibach in Germany working on it so should know why by COB tomorrow. Can I ask why you were concerned? Did they not fit correctly? The car drives fine, and if the coil rates in the US are softer than the EU so what? Two things concerned me at the time of installation. 1: On the original coils the top loop is flat so that the coil and top mount which also has a flat underbelly compressed evenly... On the replacement coils the top loop was rounded so when the pressure was released the coil was distorted along it's body.. Obviously this looked wrong but since the upper mount is rubber i had to assume it would adopt the new coil. 2: I am surprised that the drop was so immediately visible... i feel once the coils have relaxed then they will exceed the advertised drop, this is of concern. I am sure you would agree if these concerns prove to be wrong then great.. but i would rather act on the side of caution than not act at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Posted October 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 Tony, I'm in agreement with you, just finding it difficult to understand why there would be a difference between the specs for Europe and the U.S as there certainly isn't a difference in the requirements as the roads here are no different than anywhere else...would they then for example have different specs for the second generation IS's supplied in Asia/China/Middle East?? Don't think so. Hopefully all will be revealed by our German friends who were responsible for the design in Eibach Oberflachentechnik GmbH in Ludenscheld (EOT). Perhaps it's a difference between reference standards used for the European market and that of the USA, which is something I also have to cope with in my day job. If there's a good reason to change then it's a simple job, I'm more concerned with the lack of geometry adjustment, especially as I'm fitting larger diameter and wider rims than the OEM has on offer. As I'm in the States at the moment I'll seek what, if anything, is available in that line, but failing that may have to design a mod to the standard parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Posted October 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Tony, I received a reply from the emails I sent to Eibach, Germany stating there is no issue with the fitment, as the suspension parts are identical on the European and USA models. There is a difference in the spring sets, which is why the part numbers are different. The US spec calls for a stiffer spring that has a progressive loading as opposed to the European which is manufactured from a lighter gauge that gives a non-progressive and softer ride (Eibach described them as static rather than progressive). Also the US springset gives 33mm drop on the front and 25mm drop on the rear whereas the European set is 30mm all round. Eibach UK also spoke to me on the phone and apologised for not providing more details, but they only have access to the UK drawings as Eibach, Germany are reluctant to provide them with the USA drawings. They confirm there's no safety issue and the springs are covered under their warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Tony, I received a reply from the emails I sent to Eibach, Germany stating there is no issue with the fitment, as the suspension parts are identical on the European and USA models. There is a difference in the spring sets, which is why the part numbers are different. The US spec calls for a stiffer spring that has a progressive loading as opposed to the European which is manufactured from a lighter gauge that gives a non-progressive and softer ride (Eibach described them as static rather than progressive). Also the US springset gives 33mm drop on the front and 25mm drop on the rear whereas the European set is 30mm all round. Eibach UK also spoke to me on the phone and apologised for not providing more details, but they only have access to the UK drawings as Eibach, Germany are reluctant to provide them with the USA drawings. They confirm there's no safety issue and the springs are covered under their warranty. I am so, so relived! This example shows the power of forums where people can communicate concerns and resolve them... In this situation Eibach were at fault due to their lack of communication and we bought this to light. The main thing is you are safe and we have all learned something.... I like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Posted October 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Strange that our assumption was incorrect regarding the stiffer spring setting. The U.S being the one with a stiffer and progressive action. Eibach say the Asian specification for the 200/300 is also different from the European specification and they receive a lot of orders from Japan for the European 200/300 Springsets. It's a complete mystery to me why there's a difference at all, but Eibach gave me a clue in saying they work with various reputable Tuning Companies in each of the markets...presumably the variation comes from different requirements emanating from these Companies... Probably also explains why Eibach Germany will not share the U.S drawing with the U.K. I notice that TOMS are now marketing coilovers for the 250/350, but they are the same model for the GS and the 300 models...and they're $3,300 (1813 GBP). That's more than my wheels..can't justify that for a setting I'm unlikely to ever change. What do you think about the camber adjustment? We going need it or not with the 19" rims? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 What do you think about the camber adjustment? We going need it or not with the 19" rims? Without question yes! We need 3/4 degree US language, 45' @ 60' to a degree EU or 75' @ 100' again EU. The rear positions are fine... My only concern mentioned earlier is the rotation of the castor since the steering arm is now in front of the control arm... i fear the camber correction will lower the castor position, if it does then a deeper camber would be more desirable than a low castor despite the tyre wear.. Sorry but at the moment i don't have the computer power to calculate the correction parameters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Posted November 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 What do you think about the camber adjustment? We going need it or not with the 19" rims? Without question yes! We need 3/4 degree US language, 45' @ 60' to a degree EU or 75' @ 100' again EU. The rear positions are fine... My only concern mentioned earlier is the rotation of the castor since the steering arm is now in front of the control arm... i fear the camber correction will lower the castor position, if it does then a deeper camber would be more desirable than a low castor despite the tyre wear.. Sorry but at the moment i don't have the computer power to calculate the correction parameters. Tony, I've managed to find the OEM Steering Geometry settings, but it's for the IS250 Non-Sport (not lowered) fitted with 18" Rims...any use? It's from a very reputable source but can't say where Front Geometry Toe: 07' +/- 14' Camber: 23' +/- 45' L/R Error 30' Max Caster: 8 degrees 04' +/- 45' L/R Error 30' Max SAI: 10 degrees 41' +/- 45' L/R Error 30' Max Wheel Angle: 41 degrees 34' +/- 2 degrees Rear Geometry Toe: 21' +/- 14' Individual Toe: 0'->17' Camber: -1 degree 14' +/- 45' L/R Error 30' Max ...and a special note ' When making adjustments ensure that the Thrust Angle is set as near to the Nominal "0" as possible. Vehicle Ride Heights must be checked and adjusted to Workshop Manual Specification prior to checking or adjusting of the Steering Geometry. End. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 What do you think about the camber adjustment? We going need it or not with the 19" rims? Without question yes! We need 3/4 degree US language, 45' @ 60' to a degree EU or 75' @ 100' again EU. The rear positions are fine... My only concern mentioned earlier is the rotation of the castor since the steering arm is now in front of the control arm... i fear the camber correction will lower the castor position, if it does then a deeper camber would be more desirable than a low castor despite the tyre wear.. Sorry but at the moment i don't have the computer power to calculate the correction parameters. Tony, I've managed to find the OEM Steering Geometry settings, but it's for the IS250 Non-Sport (not lowered) fitted with 18" Rims...any use? It's from a very reputable source but can't say where Front Geometry Toe: 07' +/- 14' Camber: 23' +/- 45' L/R Error 30' Max Caster: 8 degrees 04' +/- 45' L/R Error 30' Max SAI: 10 degrees 41' +/- 45' L/R Error 30' Max Wheel Angle: 41 degrees 34' +/- 2 degrees Rear Geometry Toe: 21' +/- 14' Individual Toe: 0'->17' Camber: -1 degree 14' +/- 45' L/R Error 30' Max ...and a special note ' When making adjustments ensure that the Thrust Angle is set as near to the Nominal "0" as possible. Vehicle Ride Heights must be checked and adjusted to Workshop Manual Specification prior to checking or adjusting of the Steering Geometry. End. Priceless information (thank you)... i had a 250 cancel a Geometry after i confessed the data was not available in the UK and i was going to use your template for the overlap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Tango's 250 was back at wim today for a health check with her new shoes on.. unfortunately i forgot to take a pic of the new wheels face on typical me, being an angles person... On that note, since we fitted the lowering coils the car has settled nicely, the only abnormality on the Geometry was the front/ rear Toe positions? All four wheels had moved from the previous Positive positions to Negative positions with near to equal values.... This is now corrected and will be re-measured in a thousand miles or so to form our mapping of the chassis. I had to take some pictures of the rear... The car, suspension and the wheels have born a mean looking package i feel. Sorry about the flare.... (cars to shiny)... anyway it looks well planted, and the only example of it's kind in the UK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Posted November 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Here's one I took when I did remember to put the Memory Stick in the camera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Here's one I took when I did remember to put the Memory Stick in the camera That's more like it I have to say wim is proud to have been part of this unique evolution of your IS250... The lowering (unique) the available data (unique) the wheels (unique).. beautiful looking car... Can we now put a bumper stick on it..... No pressure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorps Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Was it foggy at WIM today Very nice Tango Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Was it foggy at WIM today Very nice Tango On (reflection) it was foggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Posted November 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Was it foggy at WIM today Very nice Tango Thanks Scorps...that was just Tony flashing again. Tint next... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Chan Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 Hi, dear friends, I am new to this forum and I am from Hong Kong. I have my is 250 recently fitted with new wheel rims (Rays Volks Racing Progressive ME 18") and now desperately needing to lower the suspension to complement that new look . I have ordered an Eibach Pro set No. 10-82-009-05-22 from the Hong Kong agent but after nearly 3 months, they said Eibach cannot give them a shipment date and even willing to refund me the deposit. Can any of you friends tell me where can I get a set of these Eibach springs from UK. I can have the set sent to my relative in UK then forward to me. Thanks a lot for you help in advance. BTW, the offset of my new wheel rims are +35 for the front fitted with 225X40X18 tyres and +29 for the rear fitted with 235X40X18 tyres. Will the off set ok for the Eibach suspension modification? TK Chan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Posted March 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 Hi, dear friends, I am new to this forum and I am from Hong Kong. I have my is 250 recently fitted with new wheel rims (Rays Volks Racing Progressive ME 18") and now desperately needing to lower the suspension to complement that new look . I have ordered an Eibach Pro set No. 10-82-009-05-22 from the Hong Kong agent but after nearly 3 months, they said Eibach cannot give them a shipment date and even willing to refund me the deposit. Can any of you friends tell me where can I get a set of these Eibach springs from UK. I can have the set sent to my relative in UK then forward to me. Thanks a lot for you help in advance. BTW, the offset of my new wheel rims are +35 for the front fitted with 225X40X18 tyres and +29 for the rear fitted with 235X40X18 tyres. Will the off set ok for the Eibach suspension modification? TK Chan Hi TK, My IS 250 SE-L featured here has the Volks SF Winning 19" Alloys from Rays Wheels and is lowered on US Specification Eibach Pro Spring set part number 8288.140. There is a difference from the European spring set, which is why the part numbers are different. The US spec calls for a stiffer spring that has a progressive loading as opposed to the European which is manufactured from a lighter gauge that gives a non-progressive and softer ride (Eibach described them as static rather than progressive). Also the US springset gives 33mm drop on the front and 25mm drop on the rear whereas the European set is 30mm all round. Your choice, but Eibach UK did say they receive a lot of orders from Asia for the European Eibach springs. ...and as I've posted my latest pics on the LOC forum, I'll put 'em on here: :graduated: A clue to where the pics were taken: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Chan Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 Hi, Tango, Beautiful pics and beautiful car. The drop looks very good. I was told by my local agent that the UK spec Eibach spring set will contribute to a more comfortable ride and less settlement over time. I don't really know. Since my IS 250 is of Asia model with right hand drive, I guess it is better to go with the UK spec. Besides, our road condition isn't as good with endless bumps and uneven surface so less drop and softer spring will definitely be more suited to our terrain. I have here 2 pics of my IS 250 with the Progressive ME wheels fitted: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Posted March 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 Hi, Tango, Beautiful pics and beautiful car. The drop looks very good. I was told by my local agent that the UK spec Eibach spring set will contribute to a more comfortable ride and less settlement over time. I don't really know. Since my IS 250 is of Asia model with right hand drive, I guess it is better to go with the UK spec. Besides, our road condition isn't as good with endless bumps and uneven surface so less drop and softer spring will definitely be more suited to our terrain. I have here 2 pics of my IS 250 with the Progressive ME wheels fitted: TK...nice car, but you're right it definitely needs lowering .. the 30mm drop is going to be fine. :graduated: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Chan Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 That is what I thought. I am hoping to get the UK spec Eibach springs asap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahmet Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 Tango, that is one very nice IS250 !!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 That is what I thought. I am hoping to get the UK spec Eibach springs asap. It's an easy job to do as well... I did a "how to pictorial" here : http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/ind...p?showtopic=860 this was on a IS200 but it's the same principle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Chan Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 That is what I thought. I am hoping to get the UK spec Eibach springs asap. It's an easy job to do as well... I did a "how to pictorial" here : http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/ind...p?showtopic=860 this was on a IS200 but it's the same principle. Tony, I am ordering the UK spec Eibach Prokit from TDIPLC and with luck I may get them here in 2 weeks' time. I'll probably assign the installation to our local Eibach agent. Any technical info on the geometry adjustment you can offer? Or, nothing need to be done for the time being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 That is what I thought. I am hoping to get the UK spec Eibach springs asap. It's an easy job to do as well... I did a "how to pictorial" here : http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/ind...p?showtopic=860 this was on a IS200 but it's the same principle. Tony, I am ordering the UK spec Eibach Prokit from TDIPLC and with luck I may get them here in 2 weeks' time. I'll probably assign the installation to our local Eibach agent. Any technical info on the geometry adjustment you can offer? Or, nothing need to be done for the time being. Are you going for the same drop as Tango? If yes i will pull the data so you have an idea what to expect. The main problem will be the fact the front camber is not adjustable, so there is a real need to balance the front/rear calibration. All reads a bit disappointing but Tango's car looks and drives fantastic, we just need to work on the balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Posted March 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 That is what I thought. I am hoping to get the UK spec Eibach springs asap. It's an easy job to do as well... I did a "how to pictorial" here : http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/ind...p?showtopic=860 this was on a IS200 but it's the same principle. Tony, I am ordering the UK spec Eibach Prokit from TDIPLC and with luck I may get them here in 2 weeks' time. I'll probably assign the installation to our local Eibach agent. Any technical info on the geometry adjustment you can offer? Or, nothing need to be done for the time being. Are you going for the same drop as Tango? If yes i will pull the data so you have an idea what to expect. The main problem will be the fact the front camber is not adjustable, so there is a real need to balance the front/rear calibration. All reads a bit disappointing but Tango's car looks and drives fantastic, we just need to work on the balance. Tony, Don't forget TK Chan is fitting the UK specification Eibachs so drop will be 30 mm all round. Mine is the US spec which is 35.56mm drop on the front and 25.40mm on the rear. :rolleyes_anim: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 That is what I thought. I am hoping to get the UK spec Eibach springs asap. It's an easy job to do as well... I did a "how to pictorial" here : http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/ind...p?showtopic=860 this was on a IS200 but it's the same principle. Tony, I am ordering the UK spec Eibach Prokit from TDIPLC and with luck I may get them here in 2 weeks' time. I'll probably assign the installation to our local Eibach agent. Any technical info on the geometry adjustment you can offer? Or, nothing need to be done for the time being. Are you going for the same drop as Tango? If yes i will pull the data so you have an idea what to expect. The main problem will be the fact the front camber is not adjustable, so there is a real need to balance the front/rear calibration. All reads a bit disappointing but Tango's car looks and drives fantastic, we just need to work on the balance. Tony, Don't forget TK Chan is fitting the UK specification Eibachs so drop will be 30 mm all round. Mine is the US spec which is 35.56mm drop on the front and 25.40mm on the rear. Cheers for the "heads up". -30 rather than -35.56 is happy days for me... Less work in the maths department :rolleyes_anim: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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