minkymulbs Posted November 18, 2010 Report Share Posted November 18, 2010 I had some eibach springs fitted by wim a while back and when the geo was checked I was running 2 degree neg camber on the rears. Now the suspension has settled its about 1.75 degree neg camber on the rear. I was wondering if there was any adjustable arms for the accord tourer or if anyone knows of a solution as Ive trawled the net with no luck at all. Also what effects would such neg camber cause to the car accept abnormal tyre wearon the inside edge? Thanks Mulbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 18, 2010 Report Share Posted November 18, 2010 Before we proceed to far what are the front camber positions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minkymulbs Posted November 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2010 Before we proceed to far what are the front camber positions? Tony, I had it checked last week on a hunter system and the front was green 0 degree IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 18, 2010 Report Share Posted November 18, 2010 Before we proceed to far what are the front camber positions? Tony, I had it checked last week on a hunter system and the front was green 0 degree IIRC. Ok that's pants..... Very understeery. Can you display or pm me the registration number to identify the vehicle and i'll look into the front camber adjusters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minkymulbs Posted November 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2010 Tony pm'd you the reg Ive just popped to the garage and grabbed the print out It say Honda : Accord/Vigor :2003 - : rest of world camber left front = NEG 0.49 camber right front = 0.02 camber left rear = NEG 2.08 camber right rear = NEG 2.02 only other red bit was right rear toe = 0.12 Sorry I got the figures abit wrong before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 18, 2010 Report Share Posted November 18, 2010 Tony pm'd you the reg Ive just popped to the garage and grabbed the print out It say Honda : Accord/Vigor :2003 - : rest of world camber left front = NEG 0.49 camber right front = 0.02 camber left rear = NEG 2.08 camber right rear = NEG 2.02 only other red bit was right rear toe = 0.12 Sorry I got the figures abit wrong before i understand the numbers... Got your index and i'll be on the case tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minkymulbs Posted November 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2010 Cheers Tony your a star When I got the check done it was all so over the place and the guy didnt give me much confidence so its not been changed at all. Also I changed the rims going from a 50mm offset to 45mm not sure if thats make a difference at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 19, 2010 Report Share Posted November 19, 2010 This is what you need And here is where to buy them> http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/pro...?product=629435 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minkymulbs Posted November 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2010 Thanks Tony Stupid question time! what sort of camber should I be looking for on the front? Im assuming its not a simple fit job it will need a geo setup as well? If thats the case I dont want to be rude about any local outfits but they wouldnt even know where to start if its being set up outside of oem settings. I see you have recommended outlets can these do said adjustments and fit the part as well? thanks yet again Mulbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 19, 2010 Report Share Posted November 19, 2010 You need -1 degree on the front, maybe -1 degree 10' but we need to mediate between handling and tyre wear. Fitting the adjusters is not end of days, about an hour or so. I have suggested a place to go in your other thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minkymulbs Posted November 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2010 Am I right to assume there is no solution to correct the rear negative camber issue or is this not such a problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 19, 2010 Report Share Posted November 19, 2010 Am I right to assume there is no solution to correct the rear negative camber issue or is this not such a problem? I'm not worried about the rear, the idea about the modified car is to calibrate the mods, rather than calibrate them out, that's why you cannot use the OEM data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam_r Posted November 19, 2010 Report Share Posted November 19, 2010 Am I right to assume there is no solution to correct the rear negative camber issue or is this not such a problem? Im also an accord owner.. allbeit a saloon version. there are new tie rods that you can purchase that are fully adjustable, but they cost around £150 for the pair. the accord 7th gen is notorious for the rear camber issues, and as far as im aware its to make the car handle better and stop the back end stepping out. can you confirm that tony ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 19, 2010 Report Share Posted November 19, 2010 Yep, tightens the rear but with no front camber the car will understeer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minkymulbs Posted November 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2010 My car was fine before I decided to lower the car using a set of eibach pro kit springs. They say the drop is about 30mm but the diesel lump and trans is heavier than the petrol so the drop is a little more. Im not complaining as when you modify a car you have got to expect changes its the ying and yang effect lol. There are loads of options for the saloon mostly via the acura tsx USDM version of the accord. However there no off the shelf options for the tourer version sadly, altho I know on a few forums there was talk of someone making a bespoke adjustable arm to allow full adjustment. However it would appear my rear camber is somewhat of a mute point as the lack of front camber seems to be an issue. I knew there was some kind of an problem with the set up feel wise, just always assumed it was the rear camber just goes to show its not wise to assume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 19, 2010 Report Share Posted November 19, 2010 To some extent the problem is the rear but if the front camber is lowered to -1 degree the handling will surpass oem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minkymulbs Posted November 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2010 Had my thinking cap on today and was wondering whether the std shocks could be the cause of the camber issue. I had the springs changed at about 35k miles and its now done 50k. Im thinking perhaps now its lowered the shocks cant handle that range of movement and what with the heavier diesel front end its made the issue worse. The reason I ask is I need to work out whether to save up for some more suitable shocks (poss konis but open to recs) as well as the adjustable ball joints. However they feel okay only gripe would be on motorways undulations it can feel a bit bouncy if that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 19, 2010 Report Share Posted November 19, 2010 Now your hitting the difficult bit..... The reason you have this camber issue is the rear "articulation points" between the unsprung and the sprung chassis is perpendicular, when the lowering coils are fitted the camber curve is moved. The front sprung and unsprung articulation points are near vertical, so there's very little change in the camber. The fact the car is a diesel is irrelevant because the lowering coils are a higher rate than the OEM, in addition the suspension "bump/ droop" window would be carefully calculated by the coil manufacturer. If your finding the front rebound bouncy then yes a gas damper is wise but you really need to analyze your immediate problem first in my opinion? The front camber positions are very wrong as is the damper stroke radius between the unsprung and sprung chassis, i would be inclined to invest in this obvious problem first, then asses the outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minkymulbs Posted November 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2010 as is the damper stroke radius between the unsprung and sprung chassis Tony sorry could you explain this in the idiots guide way please I think I will take your advice and save up to do the easy bit first, cant afford it just at the mo due to xmas ect............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted November 19, 2010 Report Share Posted November 19, 2010 as is the damper stroke radius between the unsprung and sprung chassis Tony sorry could you explain this in the idiots guide way please I think I will take your advice and save up to do the easy bit first, cant afford it just at the mo due to xmas ect............. Welcome to the world of geometry...there is no idiot guide it's a complex subject. What I do if I don't understand what Tony said is break it down into sections, don't try reading and understanding in one go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 19, 2010 Report Share Posted November 19, 2010 Unsprung chassis All parts that move under or attached to the suspension. Sprung chassis All parts that receive or move above the suspension Correcting the obvious camber issue by investing in adjusters has a "flexible" future no matter what you decide regarding dampers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minkymulbs Posted November 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2010 thankyou for the explanation. Last thing I promise, what would the cost to fit the adjustable joints and do the geo set up be please. Thanks Mulbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randominbread Posted November 19, 2010 Report Share Posted November 19, 2010 the damper stroke radius between the unsprung and sprung chassis. I thought a suspension damper only had linear travel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 20, 2010 Report Share Posted November 20, 2010 the damper stroke radius between the unsprung and sprung chassis. I thought a suspension damper only had linear travel? It does but the damper position varies between vertical and perpendicular, so the radius of the camber curve will change if the sprung chassis is lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randominbread Posted November 20, 2010 Report Share Posted November 20, 2010 I think I've got it Tony. Let me run this by you. With the wishbone perpendicular to the road surface and a damper with 4" of travel( 2" compression and 2" in extension) The wheel will experience a positive camber in extension but a negative camber in compression. If the car is lowered so that the wishbone is now at a 45 degree inclination the same damper will now only allow the wheel to have greater/ lesser levels of negative camber. It's a trigonometry problem, with a wishbone at 45 degree of arc from the road surface being the worst case. I hope I've got that right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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