Rich Posted September 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Well, as it was dry today I thought I would see how well the car handled going home. This is not a comparison with the seats in but just a summary of how the car 'felt' today. The back felt very planted, didn't feel like it was going to break away and stuck to the road, plenty of grip there! This has surprised me though as I've always thought on a 2WD car the back wouldn't be as grippy as the front? The front when pushed felt like it was going to turn in too fast and the steering feels quite light. I was taking a left turn at a roundabout, going round the bend was ok it was when I started straightening up that the front wheels felt like they still wanted to turn left! I backed off the throttle and all was fine. Rear seats are going back in tomorrow after work so I will see how the car behaves then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Oversteer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Oversteer Knew there was a name for it! Would taking the rear seats out of caused this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Oversteer Knew there was a name for it! Would taking the rear seats out of caused this? Yes.... Look at most modified road cars intended for the track.... they strip the interior to reduce weight but this also changes the final weight distribution and DI.... Your car is now nose heavy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Oversteer Knew there was a name for it! Would taking the rear seats out of caused this? Yes.... Look at most modified road cars intended for the track.... they strip the interior to reduce weight but this also changes the final weight distribution and DI.... Your car is now nose heavy. I'll take it easy going home tomorrow then, it wasn't a nice feeling! There's not much fuel left so I'd imagine it's very nose heavy! So I've experienced oversteer but what was the right way to correct it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tastyweat Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 Counter-steering slightly... or... I take it you're talking about the mondeo - so that will be a FWD car right? If so... more power can also minimise oversteer (but only in a FWD car, generally not a RWD car - albeit there are exceptions). Too much power to the front though & you'll get understeer... something which I think is ALOT more dangerous than oversteer. Not too easy to explain really - it's the kind of thing you could do with someone who knows what they're doing sitting next to you / showing you how it's done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 Understeer is desireable amongst OEM because if you understeer off the road you'll hit whatever stops you head-on, rather than sideways. More bodywork between the driver and the tree/lampost/etc see ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 So what's better under or oversteering? I've understeered a couple of times and that was scary...I went to corner and the car carried on straight ahead and then turned so I ended up on the other side of the road!! At least when I oversteered I still felt I had some control and there's less chance of crashing into an oncoming car? The rear seats are back in now so will test it again tomorrow and Friday, see what happens now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 For safety on the road "under", for fun and track "over". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 For safety on the road "under", for fun and track "over". Why do you think I prefer understeer then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 For safety on the road "under", for fun and track "over". Why do you think I prefer understeer then? Cos it feels safer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 For safety on the road "under", for fun and track "over". Why do you think I prefer understeer then? Cos it feels safer? Sorry I meant I prefer oversteer from what I've experienced, I didn't like understeer at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tastyweat Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 Understeer is desireable amongst OEM because if you understeer off the road you'll hit whatever stops you head-on, rather than sideways. More bodywork between the driver and the tree/lampost/etc see ? And that's why so many manufacturers are going FWD I would much rather avoid the tree/lampost/etc... which is possible (and quite simple) to control with oversteer... whereas understeer is very hard to control... ie once you've gone, you've gone... unless you're keen enough to left-foot-brake. Unfortunately... it's evident that most people seem to (slam on the) right-foot-brake when they feel the back end out... from my experience of teaching people how to drift anyway... just comes naturally to them. Whereas any person who knows how to drive will tell them it's the last thing they want to do! So certainly in their interest... FWD/understeer is alightly preferential in a tough situation. So what's better under or oversteering? I've understeered a couple of times and that was scary...I went to corner and the car carried on straight ahead and then turned so I ended up on the other side of the road!! At least when I oversteered I still felt I had some control and there's less chance of crashing into an oncoming car? The rear seats are back in now so will test it again tomorrow and Friday, see what happens now... For me... oversteer is better... it's very simple to control & very easy to naturally react quickly without too much input needed. The main thing is, if you react quick enough - you will (almost) always be able to control it... Whereas understeer, once you're at that limit... you're travelling in a straight line and that's the end of the story until you slow down enough to turn or balance the car with left-foot-braking. For safety on the road "under", for fun and track "over". Really depends on how the driver is trained... For safety on the road "under", for fun and track "over". Why do you think I prefer understeer then? Cos it feels safer? Sorry I meant I prefer oversteer from what I've experienced, I didn't like understeer at all Because you can control it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 For me... oversteer is better... it's very simple to control & very easy to naturally react quickly without too much input needed. The main thing is, if you react quick enough - you will (almost) always be able to control it... Whereas understeer, once you're at that limit... you're travelling in a straight line and that's the end of the story until you slow down enough to turn or balance the car with left-foot-braking. Sorry I meant I prefer oversteer from what I've experienced, I didn't like understeer at all Because you can control it Yes I think you're right, oversteer is easier to control than understeer. As you say, once you're going in a straight line it's difficult to correct it. When it happened to me I was only doing 30mph so could slow down quickly enough to get around the bend! I have never slammed on the brakes if I lose or feel I'm going to lose control of the car...that's something I knew not to do before I started driving so I think it just comes naturally to me to ease off the throttle and let the car sort itself out I'm just wondering why understeer is deemed safer for road use though? :tongue2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Because when you get it all wrong for whatever reason the car understeers and hit's whatever it's going to hit head on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Because when you get it all wrong for whatever reason the car understeers and hit's whatever it's going to hit head on. What happens when you oversteer and fail to control it...which way does the car go? Same direction as understeering only sideways/backwards? :tongue2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 "Saturation limits"....... The car will oversteer if driven within the normal parameters, it's only when you push beyond these parameters it (i nearly said she) will understeer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tastyweat Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Because when you get it all wrong for whatever reason the car understeers and hit's whatever it's going to hit head on. What happens when you oversteer and fail to control it...which way does the car go? Same direction as understeering only sideways/backwards? :tongue2: Yeah - more likely to have a side-impact with oversteer... which is obviously a weaker point with less crumple zone... so bad I just prefer to avoid the crash all-together and control the oversteer. Having said that though... the majority of drivers gut reaction is to hit that brake as soon as anything starts going wrong... which is quite often helpful on FWD cars as it shifts the weight back to the front (generally), where it's needed. Obviously there are lots of exceptions to these circumstances... just general rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Weight transition and moment of inertia to speak of a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Well since I've had the rear seats back in the oversteer has been reduced alot although I've not pushed it too hard yet. I don't think my car is the best one to test this weight transfer on as the suspension has been modded alot plus I have the castor issues. Shall we try Chassis frequency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Well since I've had the rear seats back in the oversteer has been reduced alot although I've not pushed it too hard yet. I don't think my car is the best one to test this weight transfer on as the suspension has been modded alot plus I have the castor issues. Shall we try Chassis frequency? Would need to know the DI first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Well since I've had the rear seats back in the oversteer has been reduced alot although I've not pushed it too hard yet. I don't think my car is the best one to test this weight transfer on as the suspension has been modded alot plus I have the castor issues. Shall we try Chassis frequency? Would need to know the DI first. How do we find that out then? Can't we just talk about what Chassis frequency is referring to/what it means etc? Also back on to the oversteer quickly, I've noticed my car wants to oversteer more when going left compared to right...I take it that's down to the castor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 99% of the time handling complaints are because of the driver rather than the car/ chassis. Nevertheless for now let's go down the comparison route. By compassion what difference would you expect between driving a.... 1: Lada Riva 2: Evo 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 99% of the time handling complaints are because of the driver rather than the car/ chassis. Nevertheless for now let's go down the comparison route. By compassion what difference would you expect between driving a.... 1: Lada Riva 2: Evo 10 Is that in answer to my oversteer question? I thought it might be how you set the car up due to the castor issues I was having making the car unstable? The left side has more camber than the right and the right side more caster than the left. Lada is over 20 years old and the Evo 10 obviously a new car so there would be a big difference in the suspension/chassis plus other parts. I would imagine the Lada has thin ARB's, small rims/tyres, standard suspension at normal ride height so the ride wouldn't be great...alot of body roll and not much grip when pushed hard? The Evo has been made as a fast road/track car so would be pretty much planted motor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Forgetting the handling differences, which one of the two would be harder to drive in your opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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