Palmo Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Hi Tony, You will probably remember me - I've had my BMW + 2 Vectra's aligned & wheel balanced with you over the past few months. I had a bit of bad luck today with my BMW and hit a deep Pothole on a dual carriageway. The road in question is one I'm familiar with 'up north' and the Pothole most certainly wasn't there last week when I last travelled on this stretch of road! The road surface seems to be breaking up as I stopped and had a good look on my way back. Anyway, I was doing about 50mph in a straight line and the nearside front wheel hit the Pothole reasonably hard - it certainly made a noticeable 'bang' as it hit. It hasn't damaged the wheel that I can see on the car - I have laid on the floor with full lock on to inspect the inside of the wheel the best I can with no obvious signs of damage. There is a 'dirty mark' on the outside shoulder of the tyre where it must have hit, which in turn must have compressed the rubber against the rim as there were rubber marks (presumably from the rim protector on the tyre) on the rim. These have cleaned off OK. Question - does this sound likely to have knocked the alignment out? I understand you can't be sure without putting the car on your machine but what is your experience? Today was a bit of a windy day, and as you know my car isn't the best in wind, so it was difficult to see if the car was driving any differently to normal afterwards. If anything it may have been slightly wandering to the left - but that could easily be the wind / cambers on the motorway - funny how you look for / imagine things more when you suspect there may be a problem! I did ring to speak to you earlier but you were out testing a car - I spoke to another guy (sorry didn't get his name) who said I may be OK but obviously couldn't be sure. He said cars are more vulnerable if steering lock is applied when hitting something. It is frustrating as I would simply pop in if I were local for a check, but as I'm not due down your way at the moment I can't. Is the BMW e60 5 series reaonably strong to this kind of thing? My dilemma is that I have 4 new 'expensive' tyres fitted as you know and I don't want to risk feathering them. Another option I have is to go to another 'fairly local' place that I went to recently with the Field Engineer from Continental to diagnose my faulty tyre as they have a Hunter Roadforce GSP9700 Balancing Machine. They also have an Hunter Alignment Rig. I wondered if you'd heard of them - Buckley Tyres (Buckley, Flintshire), they are listed on 'AlignMyCar.co.uk' and were very professional when diagnosing my tyre problem. Have you heard of them at all? I don't really want to take my business elsewhere but it is a long round trip to you unfortunately - hope you don't mind me asking questions about competitors - albeit in my local region. Your thoughts / comments are greatly appreciated as ever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Careful the rim may have cracked. Has the steering wheel position changed ? That would indicate change of geometry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Careful the rim may have cracked. Has the steering wheel position changed ? That would indicate change of geometry. Ditto..... Please check that rim because i have seen many crack on the BMW, the steering position is an excellent indicator there's an issue at the chassis, but for peace of mind why not have the chassis measured.... but if there is an issue please call me before they make any adjustments, i just want to be sure things are "real" if you know what i mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmo Posted April 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Careful the rim may have cracked. Has the steering wheel position changed ? That would indicate change of geometry. Ditto..... Please check that rim because i have seen many crack on the BMW, the steering position is an excellent indicator there's an issue at the chassis, but for peace of mind why not have the chassis measured.... but if there is an issue please call me before they make any adjustments, i just want to be sure things are "real" if you know what i mean. The steering wheel 'may' have moved ever so 'slightly' to the left - it's so minimal it's hard to be sure. As I said in my first post, it's easy to begin to imagine things that may well have been that way before, but I did get the impression it may have moved to the left - but it's certainly not by much at all. I have just been out back to the spot to get some photos, now the traffic has calmed down, as this is a 'very' busy stretch of road - and guess what..... they have filled the pothole..... I say pothole but I'm not sure that's how you'd describe something measuring 120" x 20" (that is not a typo bytheway) only knows how deep it was. If there is indeed any real damage I will be making a claim against the council / highways department. I have spoken to the company mentioned and am going to drop in tomorrow morning first thing to have the car checked over. Sorry I'm not coming to you Tony but I'm sure you understand with the distance. If there is anything out, I will call you and would greatly appreciate any advice you can offer over the phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 I struck a bad pothole awhile back and the wheel was undamaged but the whole hub had moved backwards over an inch ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 that was a big hole, hope there's no damage mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmo Posted April 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 I have my fingers crossed there is no damage! The car still drives ok, but did seem to be wandering towards the left a little - but as said, it was windy and may have been road camber related. I'll get it checked first thing tomorrow and take it from there! I'm really annoyed about this as I've just got my car back on form after having an ongoing vibration issue that turned out to be a faulty brand new Continental Tyre! Just had it fully serviced as well! Going back to the road, I was gobsmacked how big the 'pothole' actually was - the trouble is, I was following a van that had just pulled out into the 2nd lane directly in front of me moments before (he sort of cut me up actually), and so didn't have very much visibility of the road ahead or I would have avoided hitting this!!!!! Good job really the speed limit is only 50mph on that section (I had cruise set at 50 mph as there are numerous cameras on that stretch) - further along it opens up to 70mph - I'm sure at that speed there would have been damage for sure! Interesting also, that the road immediately before looks like it has been fully resurfaced recently - I bet the 'pothole' has appeared due to damage cause during this work! Will post up what is found tomorrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmo Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 UPDATE I went today to have the car alignment checked following yesterday's Pothole incident. The place I used was Buckley Tyres which is 'reasonably' local to me. They have both a Hunter DSP600 & Hunter Hawkeye. My car was put on the Hawkeye set-up - looked very similar to WIM's as far as I could see. They seem professional people and the main alignment guy seems to be quite experienced and recently had some extra training at ProAlign. Right, overall good news. Nothing seems to be bent and the wheel does not appear to be damaged or cracked anywhere - which is all great news for me. Now, the strange bit - bare in mind the wheel that went into the Pothole yesterday was the Front / Near / Side! It turns out that my Front / Off / Side Wheel was actually slightly out - nothing major but non the less out - strange as this was not the case when it was checked over at WIM at the beginning of March and the car has had any other knocks. This was adjusted today. The other point was that the Rear / Off / Side Wheel was also on the limit and kept flicking into the Red. This is the same wheel that was previously adjusted by BMW back in November and showed up as again been fine at WIM at the beginning of March! This was also adjusted today along with the Rear Camber's been adjusted into the middle of the range. The backend does now appear completely even. Tony please could you have a look over the figures below and give me your opinions - I'm seriously hoping you say they are fine! I've also attached (further below) a copy of the figures from when you checked it over at the beginning of March for your easy reference. Cheers - I await your comments with baited breath and hope you don't tell me they are a load of rubbish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 It's good...... the error is so small, we had the osf toe at + 1/60th of a degree and they have it -1/60th of a degree. The other changes are within the BMW range and can be due to differences in fuel/ ambient temperature and bushing compliance. I'm happy with the report Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmo Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 It's good...... the error is so small, we had the osf toe at + 1/60th of a degree and they have it -1/60th of a degree. The other changes are within the BMW range and can be due to differences in fuel/ ambient temperature and bushing compliance. I'm happy with the report Thanks for the comments Tony - it gives me confidence that things have been done correctly. Again, I'm sorry I couldn't make it down again to have you do the work - it would have been my preferred option. I'm still confused that I had a knock on the n/s/f wheel and yet the o/s/f wheel is the one that was out? Anyway, I'll put it down to experience and accept my car lives to see another day ..... it's costing me a bl**dy fortune to run at the moment, after just having 4 new tyres and a full service! Should have stuck with a Vectra! Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Your welcome..... The differences in our readings on the osf is less than 2/10th of a millimetre..... so not much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmo Posted April 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 Your welcome..... The differences in our readings on the osf is less than 2/10th of a millimetre..... so not much Tony, following our conversation yesterday - here is the print out of the 2nd alignment at Buckley Tyres on 22nd (apologies this is not the best of scans). The reason I went back for a second time was because the steering wheel was still off centre (slightly to the left) and also because the car is wandering to the left following the pothole incident. For clarity, they did straighten the steering wheel. However, the car continues to wander to the left. The strange thing is how the N/S/F Camber figure has altered quite considerably since the 1st alignment at Buckley Tyres on 17th. I certainly haven't hit anything else to cause this o move. After talking to you yesterday, as the N/S/F Camber is on the limit and as you suggest this will be 'out of spec' when driving due to wind load etc, I am going to call in and have you check / adjust accordingly and also to thoroughly check the N/S/F suspension components for any damage as a result of hitting the pothole. Tony, can you therefore book me in for next Thursday (30th April) - around 2:00pm please. I'll wait for you to confirm - it so happens I now have a meeting in Gatwick that I can coincide this with on that day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Interesting the castors on the print are gray scale?..... maybe it's because they have the wrong car identity? Your best to book directly with the centre because i'm off for a few days ... the number is 01494 797820 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmo Posted April 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Interesting the castors on the print are gray scale?..... maybe it's because they have the wrong car identity? Your best to book directly with the centre because i'm off for a few days ... the number is 01494 797820 Hi Tony - I'm booked in next Thursday (1st May) @ 15:00. I believe the castors are in grey due to no target data being available. Neither BMW themselves, WIM (you commented on this if you remember) or indeed Buckley Tyres have the target data for this. According to the guy at Buckley Tyres, he recently attended a refresher training course at Pro-align and was told that BMW have recently began to remove this data as so many cars (even new ones) are unable to reach the specified figures for some reason - seems very strange to me? See you Thursday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 It's odd some manufacturer's deny the castor data, even i cannot find out why other than the fact different country's desire different castor positions despite the fact the angles not adjustable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmo Posted April 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 It's odd some manufacturer's deny the castor data, even i cannot find out why other than the fact different country's desire different castor positions despite the fact the angles not adjustable Interesting......! So, in theory, if the Castor Angle was knocked out for whatever reason e.g. hitting a deep Pothole as in my case, how can this be brought back into 'spec' (difficult to know what this is without the figures) or at least made comparable with the other side if it's not adjustable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmo Posted April 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Tony, thanks very much for your time & effort today. The steering wheel is now straight and I have the confidence the car has been set-up correctly! It drives fine and handles great but does tend to still wander to the left on most roads now for some reason (following the Pothole incident)? To anyone thinking of using WIM's services, they are first class! Excellent service, very friendly & polite with the best equipment. But more than that, Tony knows exactley how to get the very best from the equipment - something a lot of places haven't a clue about from bitter experience! Thanks again Tony - hoping I have some better luck this time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Your welcome..... The data collected really shows how sensitive your car is to the Geometry positions.... and as for that other company adjusting the camber was a big job..... well as you witnessed it's very easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 It's odd some manufacturer's deny the castor data, even i cannot find out why other than the fact different country's desire different castor positions despite the fact the angles not adjustable Interesting......! So, in theory, if the Castor Angle was knocked out for whatever reason e.g. hitting a deep Pothole as in my case, how can this be brought back into 'spec' (difficult to know what this is without the figures) or at least made comparable with the other side if it's not adjustable? Checking the wheel base (distance between front and rear wheels, as well as across each axle) plus some lateral thinking should be a good work around. TBH I never would have thought of that but I noticed my wheel alignment manual lists the target wheel-base dimensions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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