Tony Posted May 20, 2006 Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 A committed step toward developing your drive... So as an introduction i ask those who have fitted Polly bushes what prompted this decision and what benefit did you realise in the cars handling. Future areas in this topic will be 1: The reason 2: The consequences Geometrically 3: The benefits 4: The fitting procedure 5: The down side But for now....... anyone here familiar with Polyurethane? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jap Devil Posted May 20, 2006 Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 For those on the LOC site who participated in the TRD "Yellow" ARB grope buy....these come supplied with uprated poly bushes The benefit of poly bushes is that they are less compressible than the standard pseudo rubber bushes and therefore benefit handling. With regard to geometry, it would seem appropriate that with more responsive handling that a good set-up is required. Downside.......fitting the buggers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 I've a full poly bush in the post for my MR2, plenty are easy to fit (arb etc) however some are a right pain needing the old bushes to be burnt out etc. The amount of suspension components i'll be taking off i'll certianly be having a re-track afterwards. I did the same to my last MR2 and the difference, while not day and nice was noticable with a tighter feel to things. The most important reason in my view (and more than likely yours!) is that you build more compliance into the suspension as you're not getting degrees of unwanted movement out of the links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted May 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 For those on the LOC site who participated in the TRD "Yellow" ARB grope buy....these come supplied with uprated poly bushes The benefit of poly bushes is that they are less compressible than the standard pseudo rubber bushes and therefore benefit handling. With regard to geometry, it would seem appropriate that with more responsive handling that a good set-up is required. Downside.......fitting the buggers! 'Yellow' is the resistance color coded? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jap Devil Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 'Yellow' is the resistance color coded? No mate.....they're just painted yellow 22mm hollow bars, for the Lexus IS they stiffen the front by 60% and the rear by 100% over the stock bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted May 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 I've a full poly bush in the post for my MR2, plenty are easy to fit (arb etc) however some are a right pain needing the old bushes to be burnt out etc. The amount of suspension components i'll be taking off i'll certianly be having a re-track afterwards. I did the same to my last MR2 and the difference, while not day and nice was noticable with a tighter feel to things. The most important reason in my view (and more than likely yours!) is that you build more compliance into the suspension as you're not getting degrees of unwanted movement out of the links. Dynamics is my nemesis. Calculating this becomes much easier if the curves remain low.... my problem is that most times i have only one chance to get it right before the car goes racing hence the nemesis... Driver 'feed back' is not available in the first instance only requirements. As for removing bushings i understand your distress, i have some procedures available for the wim knowledge base, this will be displayed once i have the pictures available to compliment the topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDIPLC Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 I have a sneaking personal preference for uprated rubber bushes I know that they do not last as long as poly bushes, but I prefer the "maintenance free" aspect of rubber over the regular lubrication and "squeaking" of poly bushes (for road use anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 I have a sneaking personal preference for uprated rubber bushes I know that they do not last as long as poly bushes, but I prefer the "maintenance free" aspect of rubber over the regular lubrication and "squeaking" of poly bushes (for road use anyway). That 'sneaking preference' invites questions... why the unsure smiley? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 poly bushes do deteriate, at a greater rate than good quality rubber bushes. hence why TRD use a rubber compound compared to poly bushes which is the general norm for aftermarket suppliers there are several "Racer" tricks that can be adopted to "enhance" certain std rubber bushes on a cars suspenson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark H. Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 On the Soarer some have put on poly bushes as most of the cars are getting to the age where the originals are wearing/worn out. Usually you then hear the people complain about the amount of squeaking they cause, and the embarrasment some owners feel as the cars squeak over every bump. They are much cheaper than standard ones, but then the labour is pretty pricey, so unless you do it yourself or know someone who can do it cheap, the difference in price becomes a smaller issue as removing the lower control arms and getting hte old bushes out isn't a 10 min job. Some with polybrushes then replace them with rubber ones, thus incurring 2 times the labour. Having to regrease the bushes would just be annoying. I have a set of genuine rubber toyota bushes waiting to go in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 poly bushes do deteriorate, at a greater rate than good quality rubber bushes. hence why TRD use a rubber compound compared to poly bushes which is the general norm for aftermarket suppliers there are several "Racer" tricks that can be adopted to "enhance" certain std rubber bushes on a cars suspension The 'Racer' tricks can you elaborate please..... i remember seeing this topic in LOC but the 1.5 million replies in the development of the Drifty is a little deep for research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDIPLC Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 poly bushes do deteriorate, at a greater rate than good quality rubber bushes. hence why TRD use a rubber compound compared to poly bushes which is the general norm for aftermarket suppliers there are several "Racer" tricks that can be adopted to "enhance" certain std rubber bushes on a cars suspension The 'Racer' tricks can you elaborate please..... i remember seeing this topic in LOC but the 1.5 million replies in the development of the Drifty is a little deep for research. One of the "tricks" was used on the Monster. Even though the TRD heavy duty rubber rear diff mounts were employed, there was still far too much torque which was creating excessive movement in the diff. What we did to eleviate this problem (we could have made solid metal bushes to the detriment of user comfort - noise, virabtion and harshness etc) was to manufacture some spacers to compress the rubber bushes and positively locate the centre sleeves. It seems to have worked so far, and lived through a bit of drifting too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 poly bushes do deteriorate, at a greater rate than good quality rubber bushes. hence why TRD use a rubber compound compared to poly bushes which is the general norm for aftermarket suppliers there are several "Racer" tricks that can be adopted to "enhance" certain std rubber bushes on a cars suspension The 'Racer' tricks can you elaborate please..... i remember seeing this topic in LOC but the 1.5 million replies in the development of the Drifty is a little deep for research. One of the "tricks" was used on the Monster. Even though the TRD heavy duty rubber rear diff mounts were employed, there was still far too much torque which was creating excessive movement in the diff. What we did to eleviate this problem (we could have made solid metal bushes to the detriment of user comfort - noise, virabtion and harshness etc) was to manufacture some spacers to compress the rubber bushes and positively locate the centre sleeves. It seems to have worked so far, and lived through a bit of drifting too Very clever.. i wonder though?, since the bushings are in effect shock absorbers, if the absorption is reduced to far could this assume mechanical damage, or rapid wear to the bushings... i understand your example is specific and i only enquire generally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDIPLC Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 poly bushes do deteriorate, at a greater rate than good quality rubber bushes. hence why TRD use a rubber compound compared to poly bushes which is the general norm for aftermarket suppliers there are several "Racer" tricks that can be adopted to "enhance" certain std rubber bushes on a cars suspension The 'Racer' tricks can you elaborate please..... i remember seeing this topic in LOC but the 1.5 million replies in the development of the Drifty is a little deep for research. One of the "tricks" was used on the Monster. Even though the TRD heavy duty rubber rear diff mounts were employed, there was still far too much torque which was creating excessive movement in the diff. What we did to eleviate this problem (we could have made solid metal bushes to the detriment of user comfort - noise, virabtion and harshness etc) was to manufacture some spacers to compress the rubber bushes and positively locate the centre sleeves. It seems to have worked so far, and lived through a bit of drifting too Very clever.. i wonder though?, since the bushings are in effect shock absorbers, if the absorption is reduced to far could this assume mechanical damage, or rapid wear to the bushings... i understand your example is specific and i only enquire generally. A good point well made. In this particular instance we didn't persieve the need for diff mounts to act as "shock absorbers"- just as "insulators" to reduce noise, vibration and harshness. The more we can reduce the differential movement - the better (without compromising the "road manners"). Job done However, I suspect that the reincarnation of the Monster in the form a Drift Racer could well justify the installation of solid aluminium diff mounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 poly bushes do deteriorate, at a greater rate than good quality rubber bushes. hence why TRD use a rubber compound compared to poly bushes which is the general norm for aftermarket suppliers there are several "Racer" tricks that can be adopted to "enhance" certain std rubber bushes on a cars suspension The 'Racer' tricks can you elaborate please..... i remember seeing this topic in LOC but the 1.5 million replies in the development of the Drifty is a little deep for research. One of the "tricks" was used on the Monster. Even though the TRD heavy duty rubber rear diff mounts were employed, there was still far too much torque which was creating excessive movement in the diff. What we did to eleviate this problem (we could have made solid metal bushes to the detriment of user comfort - noise, virabtion and harshness etc) was to manufacture some spacers to compress the rubber bushes and positively locate the centre sleeves. It seems to have worked so far, and lived through a bit of drifting too Very clever.. i wonder though?, since the bushings are in effect shock absorbers, if the absorption is reduced to far could this assume mechanical damage, or rapid wear to the bushings... i understand your example is specific and i only enquire generally. A good point well made. In this particular instance we didn't persieve the need for diff mounts to act as "shock absorbers"- just as "insulators" to reduce noise, vibration and harshness. The more we can reduce the differential movement - the better (without compromising the "road manners"). Job done However, I suspect that the reincarnation of the Monster in the form a Drift Racer could well justify the installation of solid aluminium diff mounts. Unique evolutions developing unprecedented future standards..... i love it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 However, I suspect that the reincarnation of the Monster in the form a Drift Racer could well justify the installation of solid aluminium diff mounts. which, is all in hand, i have a semi prepared subframe, with said solid aluminum diff mounts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDIPLC Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 However, I suspect that the reincarnation of the Monster in the form a Drift Racer could well justify the installation of solid aluminium diff mounts. which, is all in hand, i have a semi prepared subframe, with said solid aluminum diff mounts Good work Mat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 However, I suspect that the reincarnation of the Monster in the form a Drift Racer could well justify the installation of solid aluminium diff mounts. which, is all in hand, i have a semi prepared subframe, with said solid aluminum diff mounts Good work Mat stop your making me dribble from this frame and she is a beaut what next? Remember my wondering was the fact PB are in essence shock absorbers, how rigid can a frame be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger440 Posted July 9, 2006 Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 In my experience, i have found poly bushes to be excellent when used in a compressive application, ie drag strut. ALL the problems i have ever had are where it is experiencing radial movement, ie a wisbone pivot. It is these applications where the squeaking occurs, usually because the outside of the bush is rotating within the housing. Greasing or lubricating is hardly the solution -it shouldn't be moving! The bush should absorb the movement. I do currently have some in this application on my ute rear trailing arms. I bought these because they are adjustable (camber/toe). Rubber variants are not available. That said, no squeaks. I suspect that this is partly because they have a seperate inner sleeve, which means no assembly lube required and the bolts were tightened with the cars weight in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted July 9, 2006 Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 Tony, Just for reference, what i'll be using your rent-a-ramp service for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 Tony, Just for reference, what i'll be using your rent-a-ramp service for Looks like something from Mandy's Massage parlor .... Games on jon as soon as the doors are open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick the greek Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 Tony, Just for reference, what i'll be using your rent-a-ramp service for Looks like something from Mandy's Massage parlor .... Games on jon as soon as the doors are open. Ooooo rent a ramp. Jon, I'll help you fit yours if you help me fit mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Tony, Just for reference, what i'll be using your rent-a-ramp service for Looks like something from Mandy's Massage parlor .... Games on jon as soon as the doors are open. Ooooo rent a ramp. Jon, I'll help you fit yours if you help me fit mine How goes the work guys?..... I have both cars Geometry image prior to fitment and obviously would like to re-measure the cars after fitment, and asses the new locations Geometrically Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick the greek Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Jon's organising a GB for uprated bushes over on IMOC at the moment. I think we're waiting for a few more people to sign up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Jon's organising a GB for uprated bushes over on IMOC at the moment. I think we're waiting for a few more people to sign up. Out of interest do you intend to fit them yourselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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