Mat Posted July 29, 2007 Report Share Posted July 29, 2007 well as it will soon be time for tony to wave his wand over the chassis set up on the Monster, i thought it may be time to discuss the requirements. -2.5 front and -1.5 camber.... seems the ideal on most of the Road driven drift cars. the requirements, are good turn in, and even tyre wear on the rear, neutral and balanced feel Camber a heavy front camber is useful,(id say around -3) as the car Will not be used on the road, i think even more aggressive camber on the front could be feasible. due to rear tyre wear, i would like to have the rear camber as low as possible for maximum Tyre contact patch.... On the rear you typically want even tyre wear, so i'd look for a 1.0-1.5 Castor is the biggy here, and assist greatly in the transitions between drift angles, ideally the quicker the steering wheel self centres the better, some guys are running around 7.5 to 8.0 castor toe 0 toe all round Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 29, 2007 Report Share Posted July 29, 2007 I am with you for the camber positions..... The pure comp Jap boys we know run about -5.5 front and -3.5 rear, 6d castor and "dubious" amounts of toe? If we can reduce the KPI to about 6d despite the lowering, you will be less dependant on the castor for steering return. The TDI machine will enable us to calculate the toot-V-castor position to establish an accelerated lock angle. If we can manipulate +2.5d+ @ 20d on the inner wheel then you will be a happy man If the positions agree with you Mat then the next step is to manipulate the toe.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted July 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2007 i hear you on the rear...however the big comp guys have tyre sponsers, so are happy to kill "someone elses" rubber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 29, 2007 Report Share Posted July 29, 2007 i hear you on the rear...however the big comp guys have tyre sponsers, so are happy to kill "someone elses" rubber I agree... 90% of the "show display" is smoke from the Jap brigade. A more conservative footprint is wise for someone who just wants to display the actual art of Drifting.... And save the tyres to boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 We are all set and ready to go for the Big Drift-set-up... Point to note Mat. My increment of measurement is Degrees and minutes not decimal degrees and minutes. So the camber/castor positions may look different. I can mentally convert on the fly but it takes more time.... I'm sure you couldn't care less so long as we hit the target positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorps Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 Regardless of the geo set up.....is it really possible to drift and not kill tyres, in most cases the drift cars are high BHP RWD....big power wheel spinning= shredded tyres? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 Regardless of the geo set up.....is it really possible to drift and not kill tyres, in most cases the drift cars are high BHP RWD....big power wheel spinning= shredded tyres? You are correct but it is possible to be conservative toward the rate of wear... I think Mat will be able to use the BHP to initiate rather than a forced high cost chassis set-up. Nevertheless the set+test will prove or deny this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorps Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 So best to get a sponsor then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 Everything went without a hitch.... All the secrete bits are fitted And the calibration complied exactly to mat's instructions other than the castor which is not directly adjustable. Now the chassis has a distinct fingerprint all we need now is some testing allowing future fine-tuning. Many thanks to Mark (owner of TDi) for the use of the facilities and indeed the staff for the lend of their tools... Absolutely top team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted August 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 brilliant Tony what were the final settings..you opted for. did you see the corner weight results...ill have to get sam to post them up, is that the only pic you managed to get....did the "white rods" help at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 brilliant Tony what were the final settings..you opted for. did you see the corner weight results...ill have to get sam to post them up, is that the only pic you managed to get....did the "white rods" help at all I opted for your ideal settings to preserve the rear tyres and allow a better footprint. Rear Camber -1 degree Toe 0 Front Camber - 3 degrees Toe 0 Castor + 6 degrees We used the natural rear camber adjusters until they "maxed out" then the new "white rods" to conclude the angles.... Reason for this is that i wanted as many threads as possible "inside" the adjustable rods to retain strength. Also i opted to correct the front camber positions using the natural adjusters because this would keep the KPI declined.... This is beneficial as an aid to return the steering since the "non-adjustable" castor finished at 6 degrees. The lock angles and TOOT are still subject to testing.... I think this is wise since today's transition needs your feedback. From this we can work on tuning the calibration rather than "blanket bombing" it in on one sitting. The "white rods" were not imaged due to the fact the developments and exposure belong to you not wim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted August 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 Brilliant Tony, well i should be able to give some feedback after the weekend. ive asked Sam to post the Corner weight results.......Quite interesting the car, is heavier than a std is200, but we have to consider the bigger engine, and roll cage.....the DI though, was better than the std car..... however the weight on each corner is quite balanced....obviously front biased, but not as much as i had thought it would have been (considering the weight of the 2jz-gte) the cage, the location of the fuel cell, and the battery certainly help to balance the car out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 I'm not surprised the DI is good... You have taken carfull deliberate steps during the evolution of the Drifty, using respected companies and products during it's birth. It will be rewarding to hear your feedback after the weekend regarding the Geometry calibration... Also i wonder if a move in the center of gravity (forward) becomes a future topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted August 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2007 well, im back, the car performed a treat, .and i had a brilliant weekend power is now just right, throttle response spot on, and the geometry perfect, whereas id normally kill a set of rear tyres in a couple of runs, now they last 7-8-9 runs, or longer....... the car now goes where i want it to go, and on power off weight transfer, the car slides under an amazing amount of control...... the geometry on the rear couldn't have been as successful without the use of the new re-inforced lower arms with spherical bush, the TDI adjustable TCA with spherical bush, and the "WhiteArms" i made to pretty much give 70% more camber adjustment......now the wear on the rear is almost perfectly even across the whole tyre width, until a tyre sponser comes along, this is the best set up for tyre wear Have to give a big thanks to Shaun (TDI) and his better half, for coming down, and giving a bit of support, Thanks very much! there was a shed load of pics taken at USC, but here are a few ive found already........on the tinterweb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 6, 2007 Report Share Posted August 6, 2007 Absolutely superb mat.... I am really pleased the work by TDi and wim finally allowed you to perform with top marks. From my field tyre preservation and handling was the target so to get 9+ runs and your happy with the handling is happy days all round This image says it all really If any more appear please post them up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted August 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2007 yup, im really pleased with all the effort thats been put in...... Julian had a word with me while i was there....will have to let you know in PM. Shaun @ TDI took lots of pics and some video, so just waiting for him to host them somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 6, 2007 Report Share Posted August 6, 2007 yup, im really pleased with all the effort thats been put in...... Julian had a word with me while i was there....will have to let you know in PM. Shaun @ TDI took lots of pics and some video, so just waiting for him to host them somewhere. Julian, that's interesting?... I'm looking forward to some more images.............. "Oh Shaun" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun@TDi Posted August 6, 2007 Report Share Posted August 6, 2007 yup, im really pleased with all the effort thats been put in...... Julian had a word with me while i was there....will have to let you know in PM. Shaun @ TDI took lots of pics and some video, so just waiting for him to host them somewhere. Julian, that's interesting?... I'm looking forward to some more images.............. "Oh Shaun" they've all been uploaded to my Photobucket account but for some reason i can't seem to access today. As soon as it's sorted, you'll see some pics and vids... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun@TDi Posted August 6, 2007 Report Share Posted August 6, 2007 OK - Photobucket has finally let me in. First up, Some videos. Please allow them a moment or two to load. This particular run is with my girlfriend, Danielle sat in the passenger seat. Needless to say, she's bloody hooked now... All of the pictures, including the other drift cars can be seen as soon as i've reduced the size and filtered out all the crap ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted August 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2007 there sweet...should bang them on You tube, and link from there, will save the photobucket bandwidth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 6, 2007 Report Share Posted August 6, 2007 Nice one Shaun.... Very nice indeed Now that Danielle is hooked i assume the Bug will need a Drift set-up anytime soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun@TDi Posted August 7, 2007 Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 Nice one Shaun.... Very nice indeed Now that Danielle is hooked i assume the Bug will need a Drift set-up anytime soon On her bug maybe - not mine. Mine's designed for straight line speed... She's definately thinking of doing something like this with her bug. In a few months time we'll be junking the Air Cooled engine i built for her and transplanting a Subaru engine in. This will present an ideal oportunity i think... characteristically, this will make the car extremely lively at the rear so it should be quite happy with going sideways. My only reservation about the whole thing is her 'on / off' attitude towards the throttle.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted August 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 to be honest, the bug will be hard to drift, its not getting the tail out, its getting it back in line. get her a cheap Datsun S13,......or a sierra!, E30 beemer etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 8, 2007 Report Share Posted August 8, 2007 I have to agree with mat... The bug is a bit arse heavy.... Good for doing doughnuts with i should think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun@TDi Posted August 8, 2007 Report Share Posted August 8, 2007 Whilst you're both right - she'll handle like a greasy ferret wearing vaseline covered lycra, but even a bad DI can be 'engineered' out. Turn the gearbox around and mount the engine in the middle of the car.... seen it done with interesting results on dune buggies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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