skoderia Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 My feeling too is that it's to do with steering, electrics, sensors... something that's in no way related to wheels/tyres/suspension settings. The problem is that without independent confirmation of this, Skoda (as you've found, m4rky) don't want to know. Unfortunately, I may well end up at small claims court (though again, I'd need some proof beyond my own suspicions) because this car makes my RSI so bad, and I can't afford to take a hit on selling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4rky Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 I think its electric. It feels electric rather than hydraulic, plus the weight of the steering can be programmed through the OBC link (VAGCOM etc). Up until now everyone has said it is due to low profile tyres and the 17" wheels. But it looks like you have found that different tyres and smaller wheels just hide the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoderia Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 That's exactly why I've swapped wheels so much - to try and prove (at least to myself) that it's nothing to do with tyre brand or wheel size. If anything, the problem is more noticeable on thinner tyres, presumably because there's less friction. What's definitely clear is that the Pirelli P-Zero Nero tyres that Skoda throw at everyone who mentions an issue seem to mask the problem, or at the very least act as a form of placebo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 @ skoderia I'm a bit disappointed this wasn't tested at the centre but the front needs to be jacked up, engine running and then turn the steering left/ right to see if the weight/ resistance is different. I wasn't aware this was such a prolific problem with the cars pulling? Cars like the Mercedes which have historic pulling left issues we have to stagger some of the front angles because like the RS the chassis has a near perfect build and it simply cannot cope with the road crown, but i would test the steering resistance first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 I think its electric. It feels electric rather than hydraulic, plus the weight of the steering can be programmed through the OBC link (VAGCOM etc). Up until now everyone has said it is due to low profile tyres and the 17" wheels. But it looks like you have found that different tyres and smaller wheels just hide the problem. If there is no reservoir for PAS fluid then it must be electric, sounds like it if you can programme it. Have you tried different settings to see if it makes a difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoderia Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 @ skoderia I'm a bit disappointed this wasn't tested at the centre but the front needs to be jacked up, engine running and then turn the steering left/ right to see if the weight/ resistance is different. I wasn't aware this was such a prolific problem with the cars pulling? Cars like the Mercedes which have historic pulling left issues we have to stagger some of the front angles because like the RS the chassis has a near perfect build and it simply cannot cope with the road crown, but i would test the steering resistance first. Hi Tony - do you mean it should have been tested at WIM? I'm very happy to take a trip back if it's a useful test? As for the problem being prolific, you can check here: Monte Carlo pulling left - Is this right My Monte Carlo is pulling to the left HELP! Those are just two threads, but there are other shorter ones too. The issue is that since Skoda simply aren't responding to the issue (in any way other than by replacing tyres), those owners who find the problem isn't cured are left either putting up with the problem or selling the car. Very few have gone any further in trying to diagnose what is really wrong. As I mentioned, I'm not in a position to sell (at least, not if I can help it) so would very much like to find out what the problem is, and have it cured (either independently with the bill being sent to Skoda UK, or by Skoda, having proved there's a problem beyond tyres/suspension). I believe the issue affects only Monte Carlo and VRS editions of the car (having scanned the various threads in question), and both those cars have lowered suspension (though otherwise they're fairly normal fabias with the exception that the VRS has the XDS electronic diff system). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4rky Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 I think its electric. It feels electric rather than hydraulic, plus the weight of the steering can be programmed through the OBC link (VAGCOM etc). Up until now everyone has said it is due to low profile tyres and the 17" wheels. But it looks like you have found that different tyres and smaller wheels just hide the problem. If there is no reservoir for PAS fluid then it must be electric, sounds like it if you can programme it. Have you tried different settings to see if it makes a difference? It's probably mixed electric-hydraulic then as there is a reservoir for fluid. I can't make any chnges to the weight as I don't have the necessary OBC kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 In my book if the cars on the ramp then there must be a problem so find it.... Testing the EPS is as simple as i said so i'm surprised this wasn't done. Looking outside of the box is our job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoderia Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 In my book if the cars on the ramp then there must be a problem so find it.... Testing the EPS is as simple as i said so i'm surprised this wasn't done. Looking outside of the box is our job. I think the chap was slightly suspicious there was a problem - although he took it for a drive, and confirmed there was a slight pull to the left, he thought maybe it was my driving style at fault (I tend to drive with one hand on the wheel on the motorway, for instance). The problem is that a short blast around the WIM centre in Chesham won't really show much - it's only really on motorways where it really becomes apparent (and physically exhausting). He said he didn't know what else to suggest, other than contacting you directly (he gave me your email address) - but I thought it might be best to make the discussion public because I know there are so many other people who have this problem. If we make any progress here then I plan to link back to it from the briskoda forum. I spend 3 hours a day in this car, mostly on motorways and I just know it's not right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liner33 Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 I have vagcom if either of you are close to Newbury , failing that there are lots of helpful people on Briskoda who can alter it for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoderia Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 I have vagcom if either of you are close to Newbury , failing that there are lots of helpful people on Briskoda who can alter it for you Thanks for the offer, but I'm in Hemel Hempstead, so about an hour away. I'm not entirely convinced that it would help move the discussion on though, as the issue affects both monte carlo and VRS, and the VRS already has the steering weight set heavier than the Monte Carlo from the factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liner33 Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Doesn't effect my VRS but I have continentals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoderia Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Doesn't effect my VRS but I have continentals The majority of VRS and Monte Carlos are fine, but it seems to have affected a batch of cars spanning around 6 months some time in late 2013 and early 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 In my book if the cars on the ramp then there must be a problem so find it.... Testing the EPS is as simple as i said so i'm surprised this wasn't done. Looking outside of the box is our job. I think the chap was slightly suspicious there was a problem - although he took it for a drive, and confirmed there was a slight pull to the left, he thought maybe it was my driving style at fault (I tend to drive with one hand on the wheel on the motorway, for instance). The problem is that a short blast around the WIM centre in Chesham won't really show much - it's only really on motorways where it really becomes apparent (and physically exhausting). He said he didn't know what else to suggest, other than contacting you directly (he gave me your email address) - but I thought it might be best to make the discussion public because I know there are so many other people who have this problem. If we make any progress here then I plan to link back to it from the briskoda forum. I spend 3 hours a day in this car, mostly on motorways and I just know it's not right... It reads like the angles need to be staggered... On your chassis the front camber adjustment is an "optimize" meaning if you tilt one wheel then you raise the other. The only real tool in your case would be the camber stagger. Camber force is conically compressive meaning the force either wants to roll in or roll out depending on the cambers position. A stagger with NSF camber "in" and OSF camber out it will belay the road crown. There is a problem though? As said the cars build these days is superb so the datum offered by Skoda allows very little over the axle disparity so in order to generate enough energy to belay the road crown the Skoda datum will need to be violated. Saying that each wheels position can still remain within the OEM settings but the difference between them won't, and it's for this reason they cannot correct the problem because they cannot violate their own datum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoderia Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 There is a problem though? As said the cars build these days is superb so the datum offered by Skoda allows very little over the axle disparity so in order to generate enough energy to belay the road crown the Skoda datum will need to be violated. Saying that each wheels position can still remain within the OEM settings but the difference between them won't, and it's for this reason they cannot correct the problem because they cannot violate their own datum. I'm only mildly engineering-minded (computers are more my area of expertise), but if I follow you correctly, you're saying that although the issue *could* perhaps be corrected with further time on a WIM machine, it would be in violation of Skoda's own published tolerances, and so suggests there's something else at fault here? I also just realised that the print-out from WIM says "Standard suspension" at the top - I just wanted to check - does that mean "this car doesn't have after-market airbag suspension or anything crazy" or does it mean "this isn't sports suspension". I ask, because the Monte Carlo has slightly lowered suspension compared to a 'normal' Fabia, and I wasn't sure if that would/should make a difference in terms of geometry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 No the "overlap" datum is fine because let's say they got it wrong it wouldn't effect the symmetry readings. The suspension code is in the boot of your car and that code identifies the chassis. The machine requires that code before it allows any data to be overlapped. The issue i have online/ forums/ email is there is three distinct platforms for setting the chassis regarding data targets. 1: A main dealer/ manufacture will not violate the datum no matter what the problem is. 2: An interdependent calibrator may know the problem but due to liabilities still stay within the OEM datum recommendation regardless 3: The ability to find somewhere able to read and correct the complaint outside of the OEM guidelines is near impossible to find. Fact is the OEM datum is a "SUGGESTION" not the law... Look at it this way, we both have the same car, you have three kids, i have none, you drive on the motorway and i drive around town, your always fully loaded with luggage i'm not, your always fuelled i'm always near empty. Looking at it like that you can understand the OEM datum cannot cover all and it's for this reason each and every complaint is unique. Deviating from the OEM settings is perfectly legal ( within reason ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoderia Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Thanks Tony. If you don't mind me asking, if this were your car, what would you do next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 I would generate a camber bias by staggering the angles but still respect each sides permitted camber tolerance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoderia Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 I would generate a camber bias by staggering the angles but still respect each sides permitted camber tolerance. Splendid - thanks - something to try next. I'll phone up WIM next week and mention this to them. Will post back any progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Excellent, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoderia Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Thanks for all the help. Just wanted to say that I decided not to go back to WIM and instead to drive the car for a bit longer, play with tyre pressures and do some more wheel swapping so I could be 100% clear about what the issues were. I'm pleased to say that despite the last tweak at WIM having been minor (so I'm told anyway, I'm too clueless to know!), it seems to have made a reasonably significant difference. I'm back on my 17" Pirellis and it drives arrow straight. Fairly sure the wheels/tyres I borrowed from my wife's car pull to the left slightly (as now they're back on her car, there's a small but noticeable pull). I guess I just never noticed it and/or something about the Fabia's setup means it's more noticeable on that car. So - if anyone has a ropey Fabia that's pulling to the left, first stop get your geometry settings matched to mine (posted earlier in this thread), and if that doesn't help, check there isn't a tyre pull going on (mismatched batches of tyres, I'm told?) Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Well that's great news and thanks for reporting back because in our book failure is not an option so this puts my mind at rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xni06 Posted August 26, 2016 Report Share Posted August 26, 2016 Just to help others in the same situation, here's my history: Skoda Fabia Monte Carlo 1.6TDI September 2013 plate with Continental SportContact 2 205/40Z R17 tyres From new it pulled to the left slightly and was only noticeable on motorways, etc. It didn't bother me that much as I tend to stick to the twisties During first service, I got them to check the tracking - no difference Once the fronts were worn, I replaced them with Dunlop Sport Maxx - couldn't really tell the difference Recently, I've been commuting along the motorway and it's been driving me nuts The other week I complained again to my local dealer, highlighting this thread and others, while it was in for its 3 year service (27,000 miles). They checked the tracking, made a minor tweak and adjusted the steering wheel position - no difference but now the steering wheel was offset so in essence it was worse (cosmetic). I complained and took it in again today only this time they gave it the full tracking treatment and swapped the front for the rear i.e. Continentals back on the front and Dunlops on the rear The result? Perfection! I can't say which was the culprit but I suspect it was a combination of both the tracking and the tyres as it pulled when the original Conti's where on the front and it has always felt vague when pushed in the corners - now it feels planted, well, as planted as a stock car can be. The only downside is that I now have to actually apply force to the steering wheel to go round left hand bends :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 Hello A pneumatic drift/ pull is very common and due to the radial construction and the treads position. Good to read it's sorted now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globalste Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 Hi I just wanted to say that I have the EXACT same issue that has been described here. I bought the Monte Carlo from a main dealer and asked them to do the tracking because I could tell it was pulling on small roads. When I collected it the car was dreadful but theu assured me they had aligned it correctly. I took it to an independent specialist who showed me how badly aligned it was and that the tyre pressures were wrong, they also showed me the tyres uneven wearing at the front and the rears were egg-shaped which is what was giving the loud humming on the road. I went back to Skoda and they agree to a full set of tyres replaced following the reports I showed them, they also replaced a steering upper strut. I now have pirelli tyres on it I think, it is vastly improved, but like the OP, there is a very slight drift to the left which is only noticeable on the motorway, but the car will drift an entire lane in about 3-5seconds. I would be really interested to see the OPs alignment numbers so that I could take my car to my specialist to get it driving in a straight line. The OP is right that it is tiring driving for long periods having to hold the car in the lane. The Skoda service manager showed me their full alignement and the thrust angle etc etc, but Im not convinced after the independent were pretty much spot on about their previous attempt and that the tyres were knackered!! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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