sgking Posted November 28, 2013 Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 Hi this week I had 4 wheel alignment done at a Ford garage for £72 quid. I have fitted all new bolts, new gen ford wishbones, new track rod ends, poly arb bushes, links are 1 year old delphi's. I also fitted new rear arms and new eccentric / concentric bolts to make rear tracking possible (as old bolts were rust!) So, I go and get my geo done. Please see the results below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgking Posted November 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 Please click on the 2 links - I dont know why only 1 pic shows... Ok so my DSF is still in the red, so this means I have a problem yes? I am experiencing slight clonking when driving, and slight judder under braking, no wheel bearing noises. The top mount nut is tight and the spring has not snapped. Like i said, some parts are new so unlikley to be them. I was able to tighten the hub nut with my halfords 2ft long breaker bar - it wasnt loose, its just I was able to tighten it slightly. When jacked up the wheel has play of about 1-2mm when rocked, accompanying it is a rocking noise. Do you think this is wheel bearing, and if so, could it have prevented the ford garage aligning it sufficiently - its still 'red' on the results sheet? Thanks all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 29, 2013 Report Share Posted November 29, 2013 The printout displayed is completely different to the other one in FB Jack the front up and have someone apply the foot brake, if the play goes then it's the bearing, if it's still there then it's somewhere else. The OSF camber is a problem. Does the car drift left? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted November 29, 2013 Report Share Posted November 29, 2013 Has your car been lowered mate I can't remember? Could it be a bent strut or knuckle even? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 29, 2013 Report Share Posted November 29, 2013 Even if it was the difference between them is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted November 29, 2013 Report Share Posted November 29, 2013 I'm pretty sure when I had the Mondeo one camber was alot deeper than the other side, but that was after lowering it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 29, 2013 Report Share Posted November 29, 2013 Rear cambers are still OEM +-. Looks to me like the OSF hub is bent where the strut meets the cast. Problem is the printout is the dumb one so there's no SAI readings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgking Posted November 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2013 hi thanks for replies! the strauts and springs are standard st200 (well should be, but i cannot confirm as they have been on the car since before my time). The reason i noticed is that a month old tyre has been worn down to bare rubber on the inside (twice!) - whilst the outsides are like new! I will jeck, hold brake and check for play then - this will be tomorrow now. Any other checks i can do, i need this sorted as I cannot afford 55 every month on a tyre! garage probs loves me! i have a spare st200 hub in storage, so thats good. would you like me to take pics of anything, if that helps? thanks very much. PS Hi rich, long time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgking Posted November 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2013 car drives straight and feels good, apart from the little clunk i hear now when going down my lane every day. could the fact that the tyre is bald on inside, and brand new on the outside skew the test that much? is the tyre even taken into account? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 29, 2013 Report Share Posted November 29, 2013 The OSF hub by triangulation should be the problem..... I have to ask has the car been in a bump at all on that side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickT Posted November 29, 2013 Report Share Posted November 29, 2013 Don't the fords need the sub frame aligned to the body by using long pins first before doing any geometry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgking Posted November 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2013 hi yes it has had a bump, but on the rear, as it has a new drivers side rear wing fitted. Also, I have not had a geo problem with this car in my 5.5 years of ownership, its only now since ive started fitting new parts. i should have left it as it was!haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 Don't the fords need the sub frame aligned to the body by using long pins first before doing any geometry? Yes they do but this can't be the case here because if the sub-frame was moved the NSF camber will go out of tolerance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 hi yes it has had a bump, but on the rear, as it has a new drivers side rear wing fitted. Also, I have not had a geo problem with this car in my 5.5 years of ownership, its only now since ive started fitting new parts. i should have left it as it was!haha The fact the NSF camber is very deep as well suggests the front coils have sagged. Nevertheless the OSF camber is still to deep coil sag or not. As said it should be due to a bent hub? Did they give any more geometry numbers. The data i'm looking for is the SAI/ KPI, the is the inclination/ declination of the lower ball joint. The reason i ask is the data will tell me if the bend is in the sprung or unsprung chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgking Posted November 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 I imagine the front coils could have sagged as they are probably originals. I have got the wheel off right now and am investigating everything and double checking all bolts are tight. all i have found is the rear subframe bolt needs further tightening - not loose, just that it turns whilst i am trying to torque it to 130. (standard captive nut has been removed and simple bolt used instead.) that gets me thinking, when i fitted my arb polybushes, i had to hammer a wedge of wood between the subframe and chassis to get clearance on the arb clamp bolts - could this have messed something up? I did it on the other side too though, but the other side geo is ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgking Posted November 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 hi re the data you are looking for, sorry that is all the info they gave, and i had to ask for it too! when i asked for the reports, the main receptionist said to the kid, "photocopies, ok", maybe so that the red warning wouldnt have shown up? but i watched him like a hawk and said ye thats it, ill have that, so he had no choice but to give it to me. the invoice says: "completed healthcheck, brake vibration noted, carried out full 4 wheel alignment and adjusted to spec. initial inspection found both f & r toeing out beyond scope of measurement. Turned track rod ends to return back into scope an both front and rear wheels. returned vehicle to machine and completed alignment." should they have the sai/kpi info on the system, i can ask them to email it to me if so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgking Posted November 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 ford garage had my car for 3.5 hours too! the other 4 wheel alignment place, (that i didnt attend because they couldnt fit me in at short notice), said because id fitted new bolts and track rods etc, they could set my car up in half hour on their hunter machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgking Posted November 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 ok well all nuts bolts are torqued correctly, nothing looked out of place, bent, loose - all nice and tight. The disc wasnt sitting perfectly on the hub, so i took the disc and caliper off to check the hub bearing for play but i could not find any. I looked at the back of the brake disc, at the mating surface to the hub, and it had big flakes of rust forming and flaking which i think could very well be the reason for brake judder, and the clunking noises ive been hearing as the disc was not mated to the hub perfectly. yet to take it for a spin but seems much tighter. would i be right in assuming this would prevent accurate tracking to be done? those flakes of rust were 2mm at worst, and one could have been trapped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 No it wouldn't effect the readings because the Hunter machine does something called ROC ( Run-Out-compensation ) that eliminates things like clamping errors or buckled wheels. The wooden blocks has nothing to do with the results so don't worry about that. What you need to do is ask for the technicians geometry report which will have the SAI/ KPI ( Reason i say both is terminology differs between machines but SAI/ KPI are the same angle ) If you remove the OSF wheel you need to look for witness marks on the cast hub at the point it bend to meet the strut. If there has been a bend then some of the rust at that point may have fallen off. In addition look at the strut at the point it engages into the hub for a kink/ ripple, this will also suggest a bend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgking Posted December 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 Oh right i see. ok so i will ask for the geometary report, is that not what i have posted in post No1? that has a box for SAI but they have not put the results in? Will they still have the SAI results on their systems do you think?Or will I get an excuse over the phone do you think? Ok i will check the hub and strut asap - one eve this week. i actually was loking at it yesterday and i couldnt see any cracks or stress areas. I will look again though. took her for a spin today and it drives great, straight, tight, no clunks now - only if i blip throttle when going slow i get some little clunks - they feel more engine/transmission though. - i have solid PU transmission roll restrictors fitted too. its annoying me now haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 I'm sure Jammy had a similar problem on one of his Mondeos and that was a warped knuckle but it's obviously something you can't see by eye. I would get onto the garage to get the full report, it's what you've paid for so they should provide all of the readings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgking Posted December 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 ok will do and will report back. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgking Posted December 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 ok weell the garage rung back. Mechanic confirms all reading taken have been supplied. said he had hell of a job doing my car because all my new parts had knocked it out 8mm on the rear and 20mm on the front, and he had to keep re-adjusting before he could get it on the hunter. He does not know why the drivers front is out of alignment. So, not much help sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Check the hub and strut as suggested for witness marks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgking Posted March 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Hi sorry for big delay. I did check the hub and strut for any signs of bending etc and couodnt find any. I used a ruler to check for straighness. Anyway the plot thickens, my wheel bearing (surprise, surprise) died on that corner straight away and so I have fitted a new hub just this weekend and its alot nicer! I hope it was simply the wheel bearing that will have thrown out the camber as some people have told me that. Anyway, so now my question is - will I have knocked out the geo further again by replacing the hub? I removed shock/hub and separated on bench and reinstalled? and can a geo shop do just the one corner for say £20??i dont fancy paying £70 to have it all done when no need. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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