Vipercar93 Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 I bought the car new in 05. I never really intended to get into 'modding', but one idea turned into another. Then the hours on the net searching and reading about what others do to their cars, and more importantly WHY got me hooked. I am a corner junkie so spent hours and hours pouring over suspension dynamic stuff and ended up with the funsies I have now! It's never done, but finances are short so the 'project' has been put on hold until I have some pennies to play with. I started off with putting on a full 3" turbo back exhaust. This netted me some 70WHP in the lower RPM's with a peak gain of 20 or so. It pumped up the ft-lbs a good 50 and decreased my spool rpm (full boost rocks on at about 2k RPM). I kept with a magnaflow silencer and high flow cat. Otherwise I could have added another 10hp or so. I have not dynoed the car, these numbers are just off what other people end up dynoing on the same setup. So I could be a little bit off. With the exhaust I added in a willwood big brake kit to combat brake fade. The stock system is competent (60-0 in 110ft) but would quickly become saturated with heat during 'spirited' runs and trackdays. I was limited by the ACR BBS's so I couldn't fit in a larger kit. I wanted to go with a 13" kit with 1.25" rotors instead of the stock .81's but they were too big. Still the 12" kit offered better braking in the higher speeds. I also put in the poly bushes at this time. For anyone that enjoys cornering these pretty much have to be the first on the 'to do' list. They took alot of the 'mushyness' and play out of the car that you would find when cornering hard and gave much better feedback into the wheel. Because the suspension wasn't deforming as much it helped a lot with my bump steer that I would normally get. The last toy I added at this time was a diablosport predator engine tuner. This allowed me to scrub the error codes and adjust certain engine fueling/spark/boost parameters to lean the car out when in open loop to get a few more ponies out of the engine. This supposedly netted me 30HP and another 50ft-lbs. I drove the car like that basically until I blew out one of the rear struts. They are a one off kit that Tokico made for Dodge specifically for the SRT-4.... it ended up being cheaper to put a set of coilovers on all 4 corners than it was to get OEM. I ended up getting a set of BC's (which WIM Sell!) and I love them. They are a quality aftermarket suspension part that is sold for a reasonable price! I also added in a set of hotckiss swaybars to get ride of almost all of my body roll. There are other toys I added in like a WOTbox/2 step launch control, ACT 6-puck clutch (way more clutch than I need, but sooo much fun!), solid engine and transmission mounts, walbro fuel pump (when I was thinking of going big turbo), various gauges, fuel rail, jeez the list goes on. I snapped my input shaft 2 years ago, that was fun to fix. Replaced my 3rd gear syncro too. I use this car every day, and it gets DRIVEN and love every minute of it. Some may say abused considering I snapped the input shaft, due to an aggressive clutch and a heavy foot. I keep up on the maintenance and make sure I follow warm-up and cool downs. This is where most of the engine wear is going to happen. So far so good! There are more things I want to do to the car. It's all prepped for a big turbo kit, but I want to keep the drivability up and the maintenance down so will have to see. There are few more things I want to with the suspension like adjustable rear control arms and maybe ditch the poly bushes for a machined greasable bush but money is tight. A few of my buddies and I had planned to hit the 'ring' next month but the bill for the trip was north of the £1k mark so I had to pull out. Here are a few links! https://www.fuelly.com/driver/vipercar93/srt4?fu=2996203 http://www.flickr.com/photos/15859810@N05/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 I must say the car looks stunning..... Out of interest how did you get on fitting the Poly's, or removing them i should say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipercar93 Posted August 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 To be honest they were a pain. They were vulcanized to both the control arm and the metal sleeve. We pressed them out with a press and then cleaned them up with a torch/knife/wire brush. The newer bushing kits sold for the front control arms comes with the metal sleeve already supplied so it saves a bit of time but it was still time consuming. The new bushes were 'easy' to install, still needed to press in one of them on the control arm though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Domestically i have misgivings with polly's and try to talk the owner out of them which is not good for business if i'm honest. Ride comfort and maintenance of the Polly's in my opinion should only be committed if the car it intended for track days or competition. For a correctly modified car Polly's are end stage and necessary as a pre-geometry tuning tool, many geometric considerations zone into the compliance, stability arena Polly's offer. If we factor in your BCR coilovers with a higher than OEM coil rate, then we can math what sort of geometric gains/ loses the suspension will offer on bump/ droop and transition. Knowing this plane the Polly's will offer a matter of fact compliance making the longitudinal toe positions easier to calculate, within reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipercar93 Posted August 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Polys should be greased regularly, or they chew themselves apart. There are bushes that can be purchased with graphite impregnated into them to cut down on wear, not sure if it's a marketing gimmick though. If you use the proper marine water resistant grease you can go a long time on poly's. The bushing itself will have a life about double that of a normal neoprene. Ride comfort is very subjective. It's always a trade-off of either performance or drivability/comfort, it depends on how much comfort the person is willing to sacrifice for 'performance'. Even if the 'performance' isn't needed. Be interesting to see what the dynamic toe/camber/caster would come to when loading everything up. I have always been curious! I read up on some of the basic stuff, but have never dealt with suspension dynamics, always interested in learning! Specifically for the SRT-4 they were plagued by toe-out when launching off the line at the strip which caused the contact patch to scrub and the tire would slip. When it slipped the toe went closer to 0 after the bushes came back to form and the tires bit again. This cycled a few times and the front end would start hopping and axles were snapping if the driver tried to drive through it. The other issue which I had was the control arm actually slipped down on the vertical bushing and was resting on the K-member. The design of the poly bush prevents this and kept the toe at a more reasonable level. Part of the toe out I think was part of the suspension extension, the rest came from deformation of the sloppy oem bushes under the torque loading. Since I moved to the poly's wheelhop has gone away, but I have not been to the strip in a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 Kinametic toe is hard to measure but not impossible, most times some logic and trial and error is the best wat to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 Nice looking motor mate, not seen one of these before. You have to hate that modding bug sometimes! I know from experience poly bushes can be a nightmare for squeaking, the ones I had on my old Mondeo were terrible when they went dry, really loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipercar93 Posted August 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 Thanks! It doesn't look as nice in person. I doubt you will see many. They only sold 1200 ACR's and only 25k SRT's, almost all in the USA. Yeah I hate the modding bug.. one thing leads to another. Engineers knew what they were doing when they make cars and almost every part is designed with the original specifications in mind. With a family it doesn't work! Not really touched it now for a few years now. Only ended up with the BC's because they were cheaper than re-fitting OEM in the rear only. Maybe next year will have some free pennies. I have always intended to hit the racetrack. I have been really lucky with mine, they haven't made a noise! The noise is one of the downsides to poly's. If I wasn't daily driving mine every day I would putter around and fit zerks in to grease them properly, but I don't really have the time to tear it apart and refit easily in the weekend, especially considering the weather! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipercar93 Posted August 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 I had to google kinametic toe. Guess I just balled it together with a 'dynamic toe' term. To get rid of the complaince and resulting kinametic toe could a nylon or metal bush be used? How much would it increase NVH? You will have to pardon my ignorance in many terms. Trying to learn =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagitar Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 I had to google kinametic toe. Guess I just balled it together with a 'dynamic toe' term. To get rid of the complaince and resulting kinametic toe could a nylon or metal bush be used? How much would it increase NVH? You will have to pardon my ignorance in many terms. Trying to learn =) It's probably easier to find if you remember that it is "kinematics" rather than "kinametics". Kinematics is the study and description of motion, without regard to its causes. Dynamics, on the other hand, is very much concerned with the causes of motion. They are often put together as a pair, as in "the kinematics and dynamics of a system". In this context "kine" just means movement or motion and comes from the Greek kineo. Interestingly, in another context, it also means cows, which problems in kinematics can often be . . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagitar Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 How do you edit a post in this new format - in my previous post I said pigs when I ought to have said cows. I am very tired. It looks as though the edit facility disappears very quickly. Perhaps it's me that's getting slower? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipercar93 Posted August 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 Normal members lose edit ability after 10 minutes. Hmm Kinematics would be I have toe out built into the suspension geometry? Then the dynamic side of it would be because of bushing deformation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 I had to google kinametic toe. Guess I just balled it together with a 'dynamic toe' term. To get rid of the complaince and resulting kinametic toe could a nylon or metal bush be used? How much would it increase NVH? You will have to pardon my ignorance in many terms. Trying to learn =) Your doing just fine....A nylon or metal bush would help but in the real world the difference between OEM and the other options is minute, reality is if points of seconds matter then yes rose or nylon is the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 How do you edit a post in this new format - in my previous post I said pigs when I ought to have said cows. I am very tired. It looks as though the edit facility disappears very quickly. Perhaps it's me that's getting slower? Normal members lose edit ability after 10 minutes. This is correct, only gold members can edit their posts with no time limit. I will change the above for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipercar93 Posted September 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Update: I was looking at getting a professional tune done for my car. Part of the process was to update my predator flash memory. Well during the flashing process it become corrupted (AGAIN!) so now I am stuck with my OEM tune... down a good 20-30 HP, 75 HP in the lower RPM ranges and lost a good 50 ft-lbs and 5psi of boost... not a happy bunny. Going to give them a ring to see if they can fix it over the phone. Otherwise it's off for an RMA repair... I got a quote for a full respray, £2200 drive-in drive-out, or £1900 for a pull the panels off yourself job. I asked them for a quote for just the front/rear bumper with a sill pull. They said around £600 but would have to come in to finalize the price. I did a price-up for new fogs/headlights. I can get them both shipped for around £170 so no complaints here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipercar93 Posted September 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 I had my MOT this week... I passed! There was advisories on the headlights so I went and bought them along with the fogs. At the moment there is no plans to fix the front bumper. I just don't have the pennies and to be honest it's only cosmetic. I am much more bothered about getting the transmission 100% again. The blocker rings I am still waiting for the group buy to go through then it will be a cause of buying new syncro springs and a new 3rd gear. I am changing out my oil this weekend again. I normally use Motul 300v but had 2 gallons of Redline oil sitting around so I thought I would use it and shorten the drain interval a little until I switch back to the Motul. They are both ester synthetics so I shouldn't have to worry about too much. Thinking of cutting the balance chain assembly, but not sure. There will be more vibration and long term engine life might be affected. The predator still isn't fixed. Been trying to contact them all week but they are open the exact hours I work so usually end up trying to call them about 30minutes before they shut.. Going to try tonight and see if I get in... becoming less happy with this product. I have had it for 5 years though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 Reads like a lot of work and money.....What's a "predator" again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parthiban Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 Nice looking car, is that basically a Chrysler Neon underneath? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipercar93 Posted September 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 NEON!? NEVER say that word Thanks =) Yes the unibody is the Neon. The suspension, interior, some body panels, engine, and transmission are specific to the SRT though. Makes for a cheap all around fun car. It came stock with no silencers in the exhaust and the way they did the tune it sounded like a rally car with all the snarls pops and bangs coming out the exhaust. In 2005 I could have bought 3 SRTs to an Evo and nearly 3 SRT's to an STI. Cheap fun at it's finest for a new car. Insurance companies like the car too since a lot of the body panels are shared across the Neon range, it's FWD and Dodge underrated the power output =) They claimed 230BHP, but in reality the car ended up with 230WHP or nearer to 260-270BHP. It shares the same turbo as some of the WRX models (TD04) but I think they reverse the turbine so they could cram it into the Neon engine bay. The engine is the same basic 2.4 found in the PT-GT, but with added oil squirters in the block to inject oil onto the conrods. The engine was designed as used as a crate engine for American Touring cars so it's pretty stout in terms of cooling. The turbo is oil and coolant cooled and there is an air/oil cooler mounted just before the oil filter. The radiator system is capable of handling the heat production of a car making 400+ HP. Put it this way the times I have been on the track with it my temps never crept above 205. The weak link is the transmission. They used friction modifier in the 04-05 model years to help keep the LSD quiet and supposedly the modifier eats away on the friction cone on the blocker rings which causes people to then take out syncro assemblies if they drive 'spiritedly'. The input shaft was turned down for some reason just past the splines so that tends to snap sometimes too. I think it was to help keep torsional vibrations down a tiny bit and help against shock loading, but I am not an engineer. I just know they break =( Upside is the T850 in the Voyager uses a stronger shaft. It's only FWD though, but for DD and practicality it's the way to go I average over 30MPG and if I am really nice on it can get 33+. Not too expensive Tony, just a lot of time! Will be a good weekend job, the transmission internals are accessible from the drivers side wheel well, the problem is just lining everything back up when you put it back together... The blocker rings/gear/springs will be less than £300 all in. The predator is a tuner tool that allows me adjust ECU parameters. In my case it allows me to adjust boost/fuel/spark and a smattering of other things like when the cooling fans come on. It also allows me to datalog knock and 200 other things that the ECU monitors/controls. It seems to help with mpg too. I have been really careful this week and I barely hit 30mpg, for the way I drove this week it should have been 32 or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parthiban Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 NEON!? NEVER say that word Oops, sorry - is neon a bad word? Quite like most of the SRT versions but never even heard of this one. Ever since having a hemi 300C rental car a while back in the US I've had a soft spot for the 300C SRT-8 but even though they're so cheap it's a car that really doesn't make any sense over here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipercar93 Posted September 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 NEON!? NEVER say that word Oops, sorry - is neon a bad word? Quite like most of the SRT versions but never even heard of this one. Ever since having a hemi 300C rental car a while back in the US I've had a soft spot for the 300C SRT-8 but even though they're so cheap it's a car that really doesn't make any sense over here. You could say that No those big V8's drink fuel like water. Still can't beat the sound though. I am not best happy, spent over 2 hours this week calling stateside, after one of their techs said I needed to call in... Anyways I ended up with the manager on the phone when someone finally answered. The call lasted about 30 seconds... an email later with the uncorrupted tune all is well. Considering I had emailed a tech every day this week though this could have easily been done on Monday... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Reads like a PITA and alot of time wasting. How do you find searching for parts over here or do you need to import them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipercar93 Posted September 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Reads like a PITA and alot of time wasting. How do you find searching for parts over here or do you need to import them? PITA, not really. I have torn the transmission down a couple times already. I 'can' have the gearset out and back in during a day. The time wasting was a pain though since it was totally avoidable if the original contact with their helpdesk was done properly. I can get the basics here like oil and brake pads. Everything else I get Stateside. Nobody stocks the parts I want unless I go to a dealer, and then it's cheaper if I just order the parts myself. I had the dealer quote up a set of rear disks and pads and shoes. They wanted just under £500 for the parts I bought them Stateside from the local autoshop my family uses and got them for just over $100... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipercar93 Posted October 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Another oil change done with a new K&N filter from Opie Oils and switched back to Motul 300v New foglights were put in, just waiting on the headlights. After the DSP my MPG has gone up. Running without the DSP changed how I drive. Was struggling with MPG so I took the MPG savings adjuster to a new level. It was pure agony, but I can say I can do it. Whether I continue driving with a super light right foot will remain to be seen though. It's a real effort to stay in the vaccum and shift at 1500-1700... The car is happy with it, just my foot tends to itch! Now with the DSP back in the effort can be seen with a 34.1 and 33.8 on the last two tanks Carbon syncro's and new 3rd gear will be ordered for my XMas present here in the next few weeks, still waiting on the Group Buy. Have a guy at work that does detailing, says he will get 90% of my scratches out for £120 and a 10 hour job. Still need to get my bumper fixed and sills pulled. I bought a 1.5tonne jack off fleabay for £80, so far so good! No more sill damage for me =) The paintwork and bodywork is on the backburner, very low priority for me, as always. Would rather have the mechanical side right first. Next up is new pads in the front again, and putting on my winter tyres. In 3+ inches they don't make much of a difference, but when it's near freezing, and the roads are wet there is a big difference and considering I am on the road at 0500 every morning this cold weather usability is important! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Sounds like good progress What is DSP? What winter tyres you currently using? I didn't even take mine off during summer but I'm hoping it's cold this year so I can see what they're really like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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