dsr Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 Hi I was advised you guys could help with a simple question. Does the camber of the road have any effect on the steering of a small car ? In this case, the car is just under two years old and when driving on a straight road with a normal road camber, the steering wheel sits at around 1-2 degrees clockwise to keep it in a straight line. If you straddle the centre line and drive on the crown, most of the time the steering wheel is straight. I've heard rumours DIY stories about road camber should be dialled in for tracking, and others who claim the opposite. Many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Welcome to WIM I think you're talking about tramlining, which is an issue caused by the tyres. They will follow the camber of the road so you have to correct the steering, rather than it being an issue with the geometry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Welcome to wim dsr In answer to your question, yes the road crown does effect steering reaction but the severity depends on the car... What car do you have before i open the technical stream? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsr Posted July 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Welcome to wim dsr In answer to your question, yes the road crown does effect steering reaction but the severity depends on the car... What car do you have before i open the technical stream? Hi Tony. Its an Hyundai i10. I've had since new and just replaced the front tyres after 25k miles. The inside of both tyres were (to a degree) more feathered on the insides (nearside a tad more than offside), but the tyres have never been rotated in 25k of use and were worn down to there wear markers . There have been no issues with steering other than mentioned above since I have owned the car from new. The new tyres have been on for around 2k miles and as yet, I can see no signs of excessive wear on the insides. I check tyre pressures on a regular basis as well. As you've have gathered, new tyres with signs of inside wear = 'ya need ya tracking done mate' It was this thought that led me to respond with I'll think about it, and keep an eye on how the car steers. Of course once you start observing something (in my case, the cars steering) , your attention amplifys any small issue, but in this case, road camber offered a good reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Is the steering position the same even with new tyres? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsr Posted July 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Is the steering position the same even with new tyres? I first noticed it after the new tyres were fitted (but only after the fitter mentioning the tracking ! ) , but am fairly sure the car has always been like this, and so is my partner who also drives the car. After asking around, at least three other owners of Hyundai i10's notice the same issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Normally i would move the front wheels/ tyres side-to-side then check if there's any change in the steering position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsr Posted July 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Normally i would move the front wheels/ tyres side-to-side then check if there's any change in the steering position. From the steering wheel or manually when on jacks ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Jack up remove NSF wheel to OSF and OSF to NSF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsr Posted July 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Jack up remove NSF wheel to OSF and OSF to NSF. Ah ! I see what you mean. I'll give that a try this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsr Posted July 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 I swapped the NSF and OSF wheels and there was only a very slight difference . I drove along a road that has a changing camber and there's no doubt the car follows the road camber. With the wheels in the original and new positions, if you drive along the crown of the road, the steering wheel is dead centre. When you switch to the left or right (when its safe to do so, like a private road ! ) you have to dial in some compensation with the steering wheel. So left hand camber = about a degree right on the steering, right hand camber = about a degree left on the steering. I saw the tyres when they were taken off the car and there is no doubt the inside of the NSF and OSF were mildly scrubbed, there was around .5 mm less tread on the inside of the tyres then the middle. However, both tyres have never been rotated in their 25k lifetime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Looks like a geometry image is required to prove/ deny a chassis issue, problem we have is the front runs zero camber and is a fixed angle with no after-market adjusters out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsr Posted July 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Looks like a geometry image is required to prove/ deny a chassis issue, problem we have is the front runs zero camber and is a fixed angle with no after-market adjusters out there. Does it sound like an issue or a character of the car ? (bearing in mind I've now found around 5 i10 owners who say there car does the same) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 I say it's trait of the car. I don't understand why they have zero camber on the front? From zero the camber curve is minute, if they used about half a degree static the camber could easily adopt a staggered position and except the road crown, from zero the curve will be virtually vertical and not adopt the crown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsr Posted July 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 I say it's trait of the car. I don't understand why they have zero camber on the front? From zero the camber curve is minute, if they used about half a degree static the camber could easily adopt a staggered position and except the road crown, from zero the curve will be virtually vertical and not adopt the crown. Thanks for all you time Tony. Would I be part right in thinking that the cars standard factory setup would present the wear pattern I witnessed on the tyres towards the end of their life ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 No..... I think the toe angle was/ is out and that's why both tyres were wearing the way you describe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsr Posted July 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 No..... I think the toe angle was/ is out and that's why both tyres were wearing the way you describe. Ok, Is it hard to predict when any excess wear will show up on the insides of the new tyres ? They have done around 1500 miles and so far I cant see any obvious scuffing ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Run your hand diagonally over the tread and feel if the edges are sharp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsr Posted July 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Run your hand diagonally over the tread and feel if the edges are sharp. I wouldn't say they're sharp, but there is a slight difference. Feeling the tread from the inside out is marginally smoother than from the outside in. When added to the inside wear does suggest negative toe. The specs for the car are : Toe-in Total 0°±0.2° Individual 0°±0.1° With that in mind, I did a rather (in fact really crude ) check using the 'string around all four wheel's method' to see if there was a Major issue.. Although it proved slightly weird as the rear axle appears slightly narrow than the front by around a cm . But after packing some spacers out along the wheel rim and taking a few measurements, there was nothing obvious like one wheel out by miles. The last three occasions I had tracking carried out in one of the major tyre chains, they really made a mess of it. Twice it had to go back at least four times and the third time they never centred the steering wheel prior to adjustment, so I was driving down the road with the wheel 45 Degrees out. When I took it back they removed the steering wheel and re-positioned it, ( I didn't know they did this ) which set all the sensors going crazy and put the car into limp mode. Hmmm, I wonder if a long ruler and some superglue will........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Removed the steering wheel!!!! This could be the problem all the way along. How were all the sensors turned off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsr Posted July 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Removed the steering wheel!!!! This could be the problem all the way along. How were all the sensors turned off? That was my previous car. lol ! I've not had anyone touch the i10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Had me going there for a minute..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsr Posted July 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 I've had a play around taking some measurements from the inside of the rims using a jig I knocked up Front Wheel inside rim ( Diameter 38cm) Inside Front rim to rim = 125 cm Inside Rear rim to rim = 123.2 cm That’s a 1.8mm difference confirming toe-out. But enough to scrub tyres within 5k miles or in keeping with lasting 25k miles ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 4mm of miss-aligment is like driving one mile, stopping and then dragging the car sideways 27ft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsr Posted July 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 4mm of miss-aligment is like driving one mile, stopping and then dragging the car sideways 27ft. I double checked my measurements (not that I dont trust my jig <cough> ) and put my uni maths into action and come up with approx .28 degree of toe out. I have a total of .2 degree plus/minus tolerance on the spec. Now to throw the maths out of the window and turn the track rods out by half a turn each. I suspect Hyundai designed the car by guesswork, so it should work for general servicing . I'm taking it for a 1000 mile round trip next week, so that should show up any issues if I guessed wrong. Do your guys in MK do basic tracking ? I'm about 90 mins from MK, so when I return I can get something sorted out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.