Tony Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 A long term Lexus LS400 owner noticed a deterioration of the cars handling, namely the car involuntary darting off one way or another and violent tramlining. The owner asked a Lexus main dealer to investigate the problem but no faults were found mechanically, so a Geometry was suggested and performed... The problem remained. As the cars condition continued to deteriorate the owner took it to another Lexus dealership who after two days examining the car found no faults and again suggested and carried out a Geometry..... The problem remained. The owner contacted wim and explained both the problem and the 200 mile drive to us in order for us to inspect the car, he was obviously keen to know if we are able to diagnose his complaint. To me the Lexus LS400 is not a problem chassis so i felt confident we could diagnose his complaint. Today MrX drove the 200 miles to us and in view of his complaint we focused on the area within the cars construction that would allow the front wheels to tram-line, this being the front tie arms/ rods. The front tie rods are a perpendicular connecting rod between the front sub-frame and the lower wishbone, the rods duty is to control backward/ forward movement of the wheels during bump/ rebound. The the horror part In order to examine the tie rod bushing condition the cars under tray needs to be removed, which we did and we found this.... Hidden under this That bolts to this This owners complaint was missed by two dealers and two geometry calibrators simply because they couldn't be bothered to remove the under tray, we nailed the criminal in 15min. Customer was delighted but i really dispare...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 Really doesn't amaze me now, dealers seem to be getting more and more sloppy! If you can't see the condition of a component without removing some trim then how do they know it's not the culprit. Did the Lexus need new arms or just the bushings replaced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 Needs new arms which are OEM only, so today MrX traveled 200 miles only for us to diagnose the problem.... He was actually delighted we found a problem but it's disappointing we couldn't finish the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 Is he coming back to you? I would invoice Lexus for the fuel to get to WIM and back seeing that they missed it not once but twice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 Yes he is..... The option to redeem costs is up to the customer, if i was him i would be reasonably angry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hms Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 Tony, for those who don't know what they are looking for, (me) can you explain what we are seeing that is wrong? Both bushes the rubber seems to be perished, or are the lines in the bushes show the bush was tighend at full droop. The second pic also seems to show a welding failure? Or have I missed it completely? h Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 Sorry h i thought "The front tie rods are a perpendicular connecting rod between the front sub-frame and the lower wishbone, the rods duty is to control backward/ forward movement of the wheels during bump/ rebound" explained the condition. The bushings are in an advanced worn condition, the images are hard to take but in several places the bushings had torn. Droop does not effect the bushings in the pictures because their position is vertical longitudinal rather than horizontal transverse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hms Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 Thank you Doctor! h Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 Thank you Doctor!h Doctor indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeTech Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 I am the "Mr X" in this thread. The Lexus Owners Club Forum suggested I contact WiM. It took 3 long (260 miles) journeys to WiM to resolve this issue - one visit to diagnose, the next to fit the new arms (but WiM couldn't carry out the work because one of the bolts was seized and liable to shear), and a 3rd journey (armed with new bolts!) to complete the job. I can't thank WiM enough. They're professional in every way, extremely helpful, and everything was explained to me in language I can understand. Any more suspension issues and Tony and the crew will be my first point of call. It's worth the long journey. Well done, guys. Thoroughly recommended. It's probably best if I keep my thoughts on the main Lexus dealers to myself. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorps Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 It's probably best if I keep my thoughts on the main Lexus dealers to myself. Paul Name and shame, Lexus are a high end manufacturer and have known about geo issues for ages, i've had both LS and IS models which both suffer from problems and its not right for Lexus to just dismiss it. Let us know how you get on with them once they hear about your suffering, and good luck! Oh and Welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeTech Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 Name and shame, Lexus are a high end manufacturer and have known about geo issues for ages, i've had both LS and IS models which both suffer from problems and its not right for Lexus to just dismiss it. Hi Scorps Thanks for the welcome! This is certainly an interesting place, I'm learning lots. I'd certainly be interested in hearing of your suspension/geo issues on the LS400 - it might help my case with the main dealers involved, who frankly should have been more aware of these issues, and should have looked a lot more closely. Best, Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2010 Hi CodeTech "Horror of the week" gets watched globally so you have a claim to fame..... Most would not enjoy this claim to fame but in your case it was corporate laziness rather than the car to blame. The fact you needed to drive 100's of miles several times to resolve the complaint is diabolical. Had the dealer/s calibrator/s bothered to remove the under-tray your complaint would have been diagnosed. I'm very proud of my team that they can funnel "logic" and zoom into the possibilities however implausible, as said within 15min the criminal was in view. The sad part concerning you resolve was gaining parts ie the tie rods and the unexpected seized NSF anchor bolt.... Options on the day was "go for it or it all goes wrong" since a replacement bolt was not available...... caution not blown to the wind we had to stand back. Happy news was you supplied another adjuster and with every possibility at hand the final install went to plan. Welcome to "HOTW". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeTech Posted November 14, 2010 Report Share Posted November 14, 2010 Options on the day was "go for it or it all goes wrong" since a replacement bolt was not available...... caution not blown to the wind we had to stand back. It was the right call, undoubtedly. The risk of shearing was real. Nice though your reception area is, i didn't fancy sleeping there til the Monday! Incidentally, some tramlining is still evident, though much less than before. Could that be the Primacies? Until this year I've always used the original D8Z's but I can't find them any more. Best, Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2010 D8z are no longer made ..... The tramlining may well be due to the tyres, or we need to set a bespoke toe position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeTech Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 D8z are no longer made ..... The tramlining may well be due to the tyres, or we need to set a bespoke toe position. After my experiences I don't trust the locals to correctly set a bespoke toe, let alone determine it, Tony. Is it a trial-and-error on-the-road thing, or can your amazing equipment find the right setting? Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 We can find it once we know the problem exists..... Costs you nothing since this is simply "fine-tuning". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeTech Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 We can find it once we know the problem exists..... Costs you nothing since this is simply "fine-tuning". Thanks, Tony. Managed to find some almost new D8Z's locally. Removed the Primacies from the front and replaced with D8Z's and the tramlining has disappeared! In addition, the ride is less harsh than the Primacies. So I'll keep the Primacies on the rear wheels until they wear out, but I don't know what I'll end up doing with the fronts when the D8Z's wear out... The ony remaining issue now is that when pulling up at traffic lights in Drive with the foot still on the brakes, when I then select Neutral the front settles unevenly from left to right. Still with foot on brake, selecting Drive again reverses the settling again. Shockers maybe? There is a knock from the driver's side front when encountering a sudden dip in the road such as a smooth-sided pothole, but no knock on a raised lump in the road. Regards Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 Odd one..... How does she settle if you push down on one corner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeTech Posted November 29, 2010 Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 Odd one..... How does she settle if you push down on one corner? Both sides equal when pressed, and neither corner affects the opposite corner any more than the other one does when pressed, if you see what I mean. You might need to read that several times ;-) The unequal settling doesn't happen if the brakes are off. And it doesn't happen to the same degree once I've released the brakes and re-applied them, then put it into drive / back into neutral. So presumably some latent energy is being stored (like a coiled spring) at the point of stopping the car, until the brakes are released, at which point the energy is dispersed. Having just re-read the above, I'll be amazed if you can understand any of it. Time for bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2010 I don't think this is a suspension issue, more like the lower arm bushing seized/ing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeTech Posted December 4, 2010 Report Share Posted December 4, 2010 I don't think this is a suspension issue, more like the lower arm bushing seized/ing Will get it looked at when the snow and ice recede.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2010 I don't think this is a suspension issue, more like the lower arm bushing seized/ing Will get it looked at when the snow and ice recede.... K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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