impuls78 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 This is my firs post so Hello to everyone I found link to this forum on civinfo.com website, and I think that somebody from this forum would be able to give me a professional advice ... Here's what I found on the forum about Civic wheel alignment : There are NO adjustments possible on the rear axle on 06civic onwards because it is a solid H beam axle , the adjustments other posters mention on this thread relate to the previous generation civic which had the facility to adjust the rear `toe ` setting only.These figures below are for all models (petrol,diesel,3dr,5dr)except type r varient which has slight differences Front Caster angle: 4 ° 14 '± 30 ' Front toe-in: 0±2 mm (0±0.08 in.) Rear toe-in: 4±2 mm (0.16±0.08 in.) Front Camber angle: 0 ° 00 '± 30 ' Maximum difference between the right and left side: 0 ° 30 ' Rear camber angle: −1 ° 00 '±30 ' type r wheel alignment spec Front Caster angle: 4 ° 25 '± 30 ' Front Camber angle: −0 ° 07 '± 30 ' Maximum difference between the right and left side: 0 ° 30 ' Rear camber angle: −1 ° 00 '±30 ' Front toe-in: 0±2 mm (0±0.08 in.) Rear toe-in: 5±2 mm (0.20±0.08 in.) only the front toe settings are adjustable & with different bolts you can make small adjustments to the front camber settings,other than that if your car doesnt meet the spec then something is proberbly bent And this is my problem : Hello guys I need some help/advise .... please... About 2 weeks ago I’ve purchased a 2006 2.2 Civic from a Motor Depot in Sc**thorpe. After firs test drive everything was ok – the car was as I expected- but after few days I realised that car needs wheel alignment as car was pulling quite strongly to left. Additionally after few miles on bumpy roads I discovered that the car suspension is worse than in my 14 years old/160k Mitsubishi Colt After lecture of the forum, these are my findings: -Squeaking front suspension on speed bumps (probably bump stops – I’ve got orange ones, old type) -Noisy rear suspension on bumpy roads (like supermarket trolley) I went to see a Service Manager about this. He said that he will sort this out - lol. Last Friday they sent the car to Tyre Specialist Company for wheel aligning. Please find attached a copy of the report before aligning ( It looks scary for me – what you think?). [edit] I've just notice that the test is performed for 16" - my car has 17" wheels. Also Honda technician did mention something that - they can only adjust/set up TOE value, what about the rest ????? Strange, I'm confused and worried .... In the Motor Depot service they lubricated rubber elements of the suspension, and changed the rear wheels with the front. Now the Civic is very sensitive to side wind and I’ve got very loud wheel bearing type noise from the front suspension (especially on curves) plus It pulling slightly to the right, ride quality not acceptable(feels "unstable") ..... #Q@%@$#&%@^ The Motor Depot Service Manager haven’t provide me the post wheel alignment report as well (how can I know if alignment is right this time?) My suspension problems are still present, especially rear noisy clunks (front squeaks are gone probably temporary due to lubrication or empty fuel tank heheh). Obviously my Dealer did nothing to resolve problems(or nearly nothing). I went do my local Honda Dealer to find out that my manufacture warranty was run out 1 month ago. They advised me to go back to Motor Depot and convinced them to pay for diagnostic and repair, especially that I bought an extended 2 years warranty (Honda was not surprised about suspension issues, and happy to help) The problem is that I’ve got a feeling that Motor Depot is trying to screw me (I’ve been warned by Honda Dealer that this is the Motor Depot regular practise). Their attitude is that everything is ok, this car was not designed for bumpy roads/speed bumps, our warranty does not cover issues like this, you are reading too much forums ghhrrrr – it drives me crazy – I’m nearly as much frustrated as driving my “old†Mazda Rx8 with 14MPG What to do? Help? I was thinking about some complain letter or something - I’ve just purchased this car!!! It supposed to be in reasonable condition.... Can somebody give me some advise how to get this sorted, PLEASE? PS. I really love the Civic - hopefully I will resolve all suspension issues... Thanks Martin these are alignments reports from Service Department - both from the same time ??? print 1 print 2 I'm seriously worried about these results, I have noticed kerb mark on left front wheel as well - it is possible that something (i.e subframe, damper) is bended ??? - At the moment I'm trying to make an official complain as I bought the car two weeks ago ... Do you have any idea what is wrong with my car, is Honda Dealer only place where I can get proper geometry????? Kind Regards, Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Hello Martin I'm not concerned what so ever of the castor positions since this a fuel (by weight) dependant and i assume you was a bit light on fuel on the day. The pull is the conical effect of the OSF camber position, it being to deep... The force camber generates is "compressive" and this force needs an equal reply from the other wheel or the car will pull toward the lower value. Does the report also have the position for the SAI or KPI, this would help find the bent component/s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89mustang Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Hi there Is your Civic a hatchback, same shape as a type R? If so then I think the data is incorrect as the 06 sedan has different geometry. If you check the data on the printout (ie the limits and ideal, in small print at the top of the coloured boxes) they are different than the info you have provided from the Civic website. What tyres are fitted as some are prone to a wheelbearing type drone, also what mileage has the car done, as some clunks could be down to general wear and tear. The change in dirrection of the pull/drift suggests a tyre problem. Although I think the front camber is supposed to be non adjustable, there is usually some movement if the front strut is attatched to the hub by two bolts. By loosening the n/s bolts, with the weight of the car on its wheels, this may increase camber. Repeating the proceedure on the offside, but with the cat jacked up should reduce the negative camber slightly. Overall this should reduce the imbalance between n/s/f and o/s/f. Other measurements look ok to me. Hope some of this helps but I suspect Tony may have a more authoritative reply soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89mustang Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Bugger, He beat me to it, must type faster! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impuls78 Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Hi Tony, Wow - you sounds like you know what you're talking about thx for such a quick response You are right about a fuel - it was about 1/4 tank of the diesel that day... Unfortunately I don't know what SAI/KPI stands for but anyway these two prints are all what I have got... (I could ring tracking company for more information maybe ?) I'm not sure if I've understand this correctly (English not a first language) - do you suspecting that something might be bended ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 "Authoritative" i wish.... Problem is on the Civic they only have one pinch bolt on the strut so there's no adjustment to be had there.. Historically the upper wishbone will need a off-set spherical ball joint adjuster... Available via DemonTweeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impuls78 Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Hi thereIs your Civic a hatchback, same shape as a type R? If so then I think the data is incorrect as the 06 sedan has different geometry. If you check the data on the printout (ie the limits and ideal, in small print at the top of the coloured boxes) they are different than the info you have provided from the Civic website. What tyres are fitted as some are prone to a wheelbearing type drone, also what mileage has the car done, as some clunks could be down to general wear and tear. The change in dirrection of the pull/drift suggests a tyre problem. Although I think the front camber is supposed to be non adjustable, there is usually some movement if the front strut is attatched to the hub by two bolts. By loosening the n/s bolts, with the weight of the car on its wheels, this may increase camber. Repeating the proceedure on the offside, but with the cat jacked up should reduce the negative camber slightly. Overall this should reduce the imbalance between n/s/f and o/s/f. Other measurements look ok to me. Hope some of this helps but I suspect Tony may have a more authoritative reply soon Hi 89Mustang, Thx for reply - Tony was faster Yes my Civic is the same shape as typeR - I noticed that the data was different that why I was worried. The car has nearly 60k on the clock so everything is possible - but anyway because it is "new" car I will try to sort out the suspension noises(for free:) ) - local Honda Dealer wasn't surprised about rear and front suspension issues( possible old type damper, springs up side down, old type bump stop) and is happy to help. As I mention they changed my rear tyres with the front ones -so now I have Michelin Pilot Primacy on the front - they are noisy as hell Thx again for reply Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 tread pattern probably deformed from many miles "coming along for the ride" on the back edit: oh would anybody like to hear my mini-rant about Honda watering down progressive generations of the CTR ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89mustang Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Tony are the new civic not a mac strut, rather than the older one with top wishbone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 tread pattern probably deformed from many miles "coming along for the ride" on the back edit: oh would anybody like to hear my mini-rant about Honda watering down progressive generations of the CTR ? Off-topic yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Tony are the new civic not a mac strut, rather than the older one with top wishbone? All are independent coil/oil to my knowledge, so the adjuster will need to be at the wishbone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impuls78 Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 tread pattern probably deformed from many miles "coming along for the ride" on the back edit: oh would anybody like to hear my mini-rant about Honda watering down progressive generations of the CTR ? It is possible, when I checked inner side of the front tyres, the adjacent elements of the thread seems to have different hight (not smooth under the finger) ehhhh I'm quite disappointed with Civic suspension - maybe I'm a bit spoiled with my previous car Mazda RX8 231- but at least the Civic fuel economy is OK (up to 55mpg)..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Initial complaint was the pulling to the left and the OSF camber position confirmed this........ ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impuls78 Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Initial complaint was the pulling to the left and the OSF camber position confirmed this........ ? on the begining a car was pulling strongly to left - 10-20meters and I would hit the kerb without assistance, you could see how steering wheel is moving as well. Now steering wheel moves exactly the same but the car stays near to the canter of the road. But on nice straight road car puling slightly to right (i takes 50-70m to notice this) - steering wheel is slightly moved to left still .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Normally if the steering steps round the problem is a tyre..... Have you tried moving the wheels side-to-side to see if the movement goes the other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impuls78 Posted August 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Normally if the steering steps round the problem is a tyre..... Have you tried moving the wheels side-to-side to see if the movement goes the other way. I think I may try this, but for now I'm not going to touch it - I complained to the Dealer about all suspension related issued and booked car for diagnose/repair OMG their attitude was horrible - " if in our opinion everything is ok we are not going to do nothing" lol, we will see if the can do anything.... I've prepared complaining letter to the Bank already - just for case... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 How can they say this when their own printout shows a fault with the calibration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impuls78 Posted August 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 How can they say this when their own printout shows a fault with the calibration I'm quite new in Sc**thorpe (just started working for Corus Steel Work - 1 yaer ago) but after short, private investigation , I've find out that they are quite famous in the town from this kind of practice (warning from a local Honda Dealer Service Manager). Additionally I'm a foreigner(Polish) so they might think it will be quite easy to get away with this... I don't know ... I afraid it will not be easy for them... I spoke with the Bank already(credit) a they are more than happy to help if I will have any problems with the car... BTW I my conversation/complain was with Motor Depot Garage/Service Manager , I've mention about conversation with you guys, I showed him your website but his attitude was that he knows better and me and you guys don't know what you are talking about lol He said "I'm the Car Technician and you don't know what you are talking about" , I've just mention to him that I'm not a technician but I've got MSc in Engineering, and I'm not really interested about his personal opinion about myself lol ... funny bloke ... will see.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 He most also be color blind because their own printout says their pants..... If he's so smart ask him for the secondary angles, those were missing from your printout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impuls78 Posted August 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 He most also be color blind because their own printout says their pants..... If he's so smart ask him for the secondary angles, those were missing from your printout I will ask him next time (12.08) definitely BTW no matter how the suspension case will be finished - I found some info about new KONI suspension suitable for 2.2 Civic -because due to my new function at Corus I's possible that I will be based somewhere near to your garage for up to 4 months I would love to have full suspension installation + adjustment performed in your garage Tony - I will be in touch about this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 He most also be color blind because their own printout says their pants..... If he's so smart ask him for the secondary angles, those were missing from your printout I will ask him next time (12.08) definitely BTW no matter how the suspension case will be finished - I found some info about new KONI suspension suitable for 2.2 Civic -because due to my new function at Corus I's possible that I will be based somewhere near to your garage for up to 4 months I would love to have full suspension installation + adjustment performed in your garage Tony - I will be in touch about this Ok mate... we can work on this together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.