handler Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Hi all, I was pointed to this forum by Anees from Evotechnik. Basically i had my car aligned on a hunters machine this morning and as all the figures really mean nothing to me, I just wanted to see if it all seems okay or if i need to get anything else changed. So if you could cast you eyes upon it and let me know. Thanks Before After Just to let you know im running 18" wheel 8J front 9J rear and running on Eibach pro springs so only got a small drop other then that everything is normal and OEM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Did they offer any reason why the cambers are still wrong?....... Also did they add weight to the car and how much fuel was in the tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handler Posted August 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Did they offer any reason why the cambers are still wrong?....... Also did they add weight to the car and how much fuel was in the tank? The car had an almost empty fuel tank, weight was added to the car. They said they had issues with the drivers rear due to it been really seized up and i'm not sure they could fully free it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Did they offer any reason why the cambers are still wrong?....... Also did they add weight to the car and how much fuel was in the tank? The car had an almost empty fuel tank, weight was added to the car. They said they had issues with the drivers rear due to it been really seized up and i'm not sure they could fully free it The tank should be full.... although adding weight in the boot would suffice. My only concern is the front cambers, these are adjustable on your car so why leave them like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handler Posted August 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Did they offer any reason why the cambers are still wrong?....... Also did they add weight to the car and how much fuel was in the tank? The car had an almost empty fuel tank, weight was added to the car. They said they had issues with the drivers rear due to it been really seized up and i'm not sure they could fully free it The tank should be full.... although adding weight in the boot would suffice. My only concern is the front cambers, these are adjustable on your car so why leave them like that? well i will go back and get them sorted out what should they be really then? Are the rears okay and such how they are currently set? Also they charge £25+ vat per adjustment does that seem about right or excesses? It was £49.95 just for the check then i was charged £25 x2 for camber adjustments x2 front toe adjustment @ £15 and 1 rear toe adjust @ £25 for a grand total of £182.06 inc VAT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Did they offer any reason why the cambers are still wrong?....... Also did they add weight to the car and how much fuel was in the tank? The car had an almost empty fuel tank, weight was added to the car. They said they had issues with the drivers rear due to it been really seized up and i'm not sure they could fully free it The tank should be full.... although adding weight in the boot would suffice. My only concern is the front cambers, these are adjustable on your car so why leave them like that? well i will go back and get them sorted out what should they be really then? Are the rears okay and such how they are currently set? Also they charge £25+ vat per adjustment does that seem about right or excesses? It was £49.95 just for the check then i was charged £25 x2 for camber adjustments x2 front toe adjustment @ £15 and 1 rear toe adjust @ £25 for a grand total of £182.06 inc VAT Assuming the cars not lowered then they should have set the front cambers to the OEM positions.... If by chance one of the front adjusters ran out of adjustment then the opposite camber should be adjusted to match or some diagnostics to determine why. As things stand now the front tyres will wear rapidly on the insides and you have a right-turn push due to the rear camber position (not good in the wet) The price is consistent with the badge for most places.. they see "BMW" and seemingly this justifies more money?...... By comparison our fee is £85+ vat albeit a Fiesta or BMW..... They both have Geometry don't they so why is a BMW more expensive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handler Posted August 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Did they offer any reason why the cambers are still wrong?....... Also did they add weight to the car and how much fuel was in the tank? The car had an almost empty fuel tank, weight was added to the car. They said they had issues with the drivers rear due to it been really seized up and i'm not sure they could fully free it The tank should be full.... although adding weight in the boot would suffice. My only concern is the front cambers, these are adjustable on your car so why leave them like that? well i will go back and get them sorted out what should they be really then? Are the rears okay and such how they are currently set? Also they charge £25+ vat per adjustment does that seem about right or excesses? It was £49.95 just for the check then i was charged £25 x2 for camber adjustments x2 front toe adjustment @ £15 and 1 rear toe adjust @ £25 for a grand total of £182.06 inc VAT Assuming the cars not lowered then they should have set the front cambers to the OEM positions.... If by chance one of the front adjusters ran out of adjustment then the opposite camber should be adjusted to match or some diagnostics to determine why. As things stand now the front tyres will wear rapidly on the insides and you have a right-turn push due to the rear camber position (not good in the wet) The price is consistent with the badge for most places.. they see "BMW" and seemingly this justifies more money?...... By comparison our fee is £85+ vat albeit a Fiesta or BMW..... They both have Geometry don't they so why is a BMW more expensive? Well the car is lowered on Eibach pro springs so not OEM anymore. Lol yeah tell me about it moment you mention BMW all prices jump up its so funny. It that £85+ Vat for check and all adjustments? where are you based im down in Ipswich. Well the fronts wont wear any worse then when i started out with those other settings. Is that correct? I love a challenge in the rain :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 The fronts will wear exactly the same as before... no corrections were made. You need to check if the OEM camber adjuster security pin has been removed?..... This is at the top of the strut turret and once removed allows the camber to be adjusted beyond OEM positions.... It looks like this> If the pin is still there then the camber can be recovered, if it's gone then the camber needs to be balanced. Regarding our location we are in Bucks..... Bloody nice place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Ignore the third image....... It's an impostor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handler Posted August 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Ignore the third image....... It's an impostor Thanks for that i will have a check tomorrow if i remember, well i will have a chat with the garage if i get time and see what they can do. But to be fair i never had any excess wear on the inside of the front tires i just replaced my conti 3's after about 1 yrs and tread wear is even and still has a good amount left but i wanted new rubber for Nurburg. Thats only about 110 miles away from me maybe if these people cant do the job i will have to venture down prob still be cheaper lol Thanks for the help Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 You can afford more camber on the lowered car due to the higher coil rate so less dynamics..... The positions still need to be even though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handler Posted August 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 You can afford more camber on the lowered car due to the higher coil rate so less dynamics..... The positions still need to be even though. So i should go back and get them to adjust the front cambers to within a closer tolerance to one another and see if they can get the rear camber sorted more. What else might cause them to be unable to adjust the rear camber? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 As things stand the car is keen to turn right and reluctant left..... On a wet right turn the rear wants to orbit the front so in essence the balance is very wrong. Of all the angles on any car the camber is the most aggressive... I use these to manipulate all manor of steer properties in particular over-under steer. The values your car has is unacceptable..... even if the perfect positions cannot be achieved they need to be balanced then exploratory examinations can be made for future recovery, but for now lets get the car safe to drive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handler Posted August 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 As things stand the car is keen to turn right and reluctant left..... On a wet right turn the rear wants to orbit the front so in essence the balance is very wrong. Of all the angles on any car the camber is the most aggressive... I use these to manipulate all manor of steer properties in particular over-under steer. The values your car has is unacceptable..... even if the perfect positions cannot be achieved they need to be balanced then exploratory examinations can be made for future recovery, but for now lets get the car safe to drive! Right guess i better get it all sorted, problem is im only off on the Sunday and everyone is closed, I will sort it out next week during the weekend. I will see if i can get them to make the adjustments for free as they have left the settings unacceptable if not i will just find another garage to make the adjustments. When you say they need to be balanced do you mean like bring the left front camber more into line with what the right front camber around the -0.47. Also adjust the right rear camber closer to the rear left between -1.45 to -1.15? Sorry to be a pain Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 The entire set-up is dependent on the OSR camber @ -2d 5'. If this is fully adjusted then the NSR needs to be lowered to match. If this is the case then to regain the handling properties the front cambers need to be -55' each, this is a pure reflection of the OEM front/ rear camber disparity of 1 degree 10'. From there you could manipulate the cambers and compliment the modifications but you need a level template to do this from and you don't have that at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handler Posted August 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 The entire set-up is dependent on the OSR camber @ -2d 5'. If this is fully adjusted then the NSR needs to be lowered to match. If this is the case then to regain the handling properties the front cambers need to be -55' each, this is a pure reflection of the OEM front/ rear camber disparity of 1 degree 10'. From there you could manipulate the cambers and compliment the modifications but you need a level template to do this from and you don't have that at the moment. I think that makes sense mate, when you say the front camber has to be -55 you mean -0.55 Also that information about the 1 degree to 10 i don't really understand that fully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handler Posted August 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 The entire set-up is dependent on the OSR camber @ -2d 5'. If this is fully adjusted then the NSR needs to be lowered to match. If this is the case then to regain the handling properties the front cambers need to be -55' each, this is a pure reflection of the OEM front/ rear camber disparity of 1 degree 10'. From there you could manipulate the cambers and compliment the modifications but you need a level template to do this from and you don't have that at the moment. I think that makes sense mate, when you say the front camber has to be -55 you mean -0.55 Also that information about the 1 degree to 10 i don't really understand that fully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 8, 2008 Report Share Posted August 8, 2008 The entire set-up is dependent on the OSR camber @ -2d 5'. If this is fully adjusted then the NSR needs to be lowered to match. If this is the case then to regain the handling properties the front cambers need to be -55' each, this is a pure reflection of the OEM front/ rear camber disparity of 1 degree 10'. From there you could manipulate the cambers and compliment the modifications but you need a level template to do this from and you don't have that at the moment. I think that makes sense mate, when you say the front camber has to be -55 you mean -0.55 Also that information about the 1 degree to 10 i don't really understand that fully. Yep -0.55'... The OEM front-rear camber disparity is 1 degree 10', this is the difference between the two positions. One of the reasons for this is to balance the dynamic oversteer properties. If you can imagine the front wheels under braking, on a bend and yaw then if the front cambers are to deep the rear will orbit.... It's wise to respect the OEM f/r disparities unless the owner intends other forms of handling from the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handler Posted August 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2008 The entire set-up is dependent on the OSR camber @ -2d 5'. If this is fully adjusted then the NSR needs to be lowered to match. If this is the case then to regain the handling properties the front cambers need to be -55' each, this is a pure reflection of the OEM front/ rear camber disparity of 1 degree 10'. From there you could manipulate the cambers and compliment the modifications but you need a level template to do this from and you don't have that at the moment. I think that makes sense mate, when you say the front camber has to be -55 you mean -0.55 Also that information about the 1 degree to 10 i don't really understand that fully. Yep -0.55'... The OEM front-rear camber disparity is 1 degree 10', this is the difference between the two positions. One of the reasons for this is to balance the dynamic oversteer properties. If you can imagine the front wheels under braking, on a bend and yaw then if the front cambers are to deep the rear will orbit.... It's wise to respect the OEM f/r disparities unless the owner intends other forms of handling from the car. Great that all makes sense. If i get stuck with the garage i will give you a call and maybe you could have a word with the garage :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 8, 2008 Report Share Posted August 8, 2008 The entire set-up is dependent on the OSR camber @ -2d 5'. If this is fully adjusted then the NSR needs to be lowered to match. If this is the case then to regain the handling properties the front cambers need to be -55' each, this is a pure reflection of the OEM front/ rear camber disparity of 1 degree 10'. From there you could manipulate the cambers and compliment the modifications but you need a level template to do this from and you don't have that at the moment. I think that makes sense mate, when you say the front camber has to be -55 you mean -0.55 Also that information about the 1 degree to 10 i don't really understand that fully. Yep -0.55'... The OEM front-rear camber disparity is 1 degree 10', this is the difference between the two positions. One of the reasons for this is to balance the dynamic oversteer properties. If you can imagine the front wheels under braking, on a bend and yaw then if the front cambers are to deep the rear will orbit.... It's wise to respect the OEM f/r disparities unless the owner intends other forms of handling from the car. Great that all makes sense. If i get stuck with the garage i will give you a call and maybe you could have a word with the garage :-) Yeh please do..... In fact it might be a wise move in view of the condition they left the car in..... Don't worry i'm not interested in belittling any garage i'm only interested in you so please call and i will politely assist as best i can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handler Posted August 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2008 The entire set-up is dependent on the OSR camber @ -2d 5'. If this is fully adjusted then the NSR needs to be lowered to match. If this is the case then to regain the handling properties the front cambers need to be -55' each, this is a pure reflection of the OEM front/ rear camber disparity of 1 degree 10'. From there you could manipulate the cambers and compliment the modifications but you need a level template to do this from and you don't have that at the moment. I think that makes sense mate, when you say the front camber has to be -55 you mean -0.55 Also that information about the 1 degree to 10 i don't really understand that fully. Yep -0.55'... The OEM front-rear camber disparity is 1 degree 10', this is the difference between the two positions. One of the reasons for this is to balance the dynamic oversteer properties. If you can imagine the front wheels under braking, on a bend and yaw then if the front cambers are to deep the rear will orbit.... It's wise to respect the OEM f/r disparities unless the owner intends other forms of handling from the car. Great that all makes sense. If i get stuck with the garage i will give you a call and maybe you could have a word with the garage :-) Yeh please do..... In fact it might be a wise move in view of the condition they left the car in..... Don't worry i'm not interested in belittling any garage i'm only interested in you so please call and i will politely assist as best i can Great i will do that. Thanks for that mate, if they refuse to do it or mess up again i will have to come visit you all the way from Ipswich and just get it sorted proper lol. I take it you will be on the normal office number Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 8, 2008 Report Share Posted August 8, 2008 Yep same number.... In truth if all works correctly we should be able to deal with your car without you coming to me? Reads a bit? me saying that since i run a business but i also run a community where we support each other collectively.... Have them call me if there are any worries and that includes you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handler Posted August 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2008 Yep same number.... In truth if all works correctly we should be able to deal with your car without you coming to me? Reads a bit? me saying that since i run a business but i also run a community where we support each other collectively.... Have them call me if there are any worries and that includes you! Lol well dont worry even if i get my car sorted i might have to get my mates car checked with you as his Focus ST 56' plate is going through tyres quicker then he wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 Yep same number.... In truth if all works correctly we should be able to deal with your car without you coming to me? Reads a bit? me saying that since i run a business but i also run a community where we support each other collectively.... Have them call me if there are any worries and that includes you! Lol well dont worry even if i get my car sorted i might have to get my mates car checked with you as his Focus ST 56' plate is going through tyres quicker then he wants. I can sort the ST.... Is it stuffing the insides? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handler Posted August 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 Yep same number.... In truth if all works correctly we should be able to deal with your car without you coming to me? Reads a bit? me saying that since i run a business but i also run a community where we support each other collectively.... Have them call me if there are any worries and that includes you! Lol well dont worry even if i get my car sorted i might have to get my mates car checked with you as his Focus ST 56' plate is going through tyres quicker then he wants. I can sort the ST.... Is it stuffing the insides? Yeah the inside wears out on the fronts mainly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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