Rudymanz Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 Hi, I have a Peugeot 406 Coupe V6 (210bhp) and i want to lower the rear approx 40mm and put 50mm spacers on (each side) to widen the wheels (the standard alloys have an offset of 12 but mine have an offset of 42 so a 50mm spacer would actually act as an additional 20mm on top of the original width) My question is, would this combo need me to consider anything to do with geometry? If so, what? I have no idea abut geometry and was giving this forum site by a fellow member on another forum because you guys should know so please bare with me if i am a bit slow in understanding things Thanks Anthony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 Are you also lowering the front? and will the spaces also be fitted to the front? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudymanz Posted October 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 Are you also lowering the front? and will the spaces also be fitted to the front? Hi, no i wouldnt be lowering the front because i have fitted 20inch alloys to my car and there isnt much room to spare so i doubt i would be able to lower the front and clear the inner arches. I already have a pair of custom 35mm spacers on the front to clear the brembo calipers (with currently 25mm on the rear temporarily). If its only possible to just widen the rear without lowering then im fine with that... my main want is to widen the rear wheels. Thanks Anthony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 pics are required me thinks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudymanz Posted October 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 pics are required me thinks Pics of what? I havent got the 50mm spacer or lowering springs yet... or do you mean of my actual car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 Are you also lowering the front? and will the spaces also be fitted to the front? Hi, no i wouldnt be lowering the front because i have fitted 20inch alloys to my car and there isnt much room to spare so i doubt i would be able to lower the front and clear the inner arches. I already have a pair of custom 35mm spacers on the front to clear the brembo calipers (with currently 25mm on the rear temporarily). If its only possible to just widen the rear without lowering then im fine with that... my main want is to widen the rear wheels. Thanks Anthony Then i have no issues with the extra deep spacers at the rear but i would suggest you don't lower the rear. Three main reasons.. 1> The cars dynamic index/centre of gravity will be well off. 2> The rear camber will move -75' or so and really aggravate understeer. 3> The castor will become very positive causing various steering issues. Stick with the wider track and forget about the lowering. The only real Geometric change will be the rear toe..... Currently it runs at +1.5mm per side, you may need to move this either way depending on the steering feel. 1> More positive if she feels like oversteer 2> More toward the negative if she feels like understeer. 3> Mediate between the two to preserve the tyre wear. Historically FWD understeers anyway so tyre preservation may be your main concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudymanz Posted October 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 Tony, you have made me a happy man i wasnt to bothered about the lowering anyway id just get a rear splitter or something if the car looks odd when i get the spacer. Also,would you know what the max spacer i could use on the rear is? Also, i am sorry but, what is the rear toe? and how do i change it lol.... i know me coming on a wheel forum and asking a question like that probably makes me look like a rght doughnut lol Thank Anthony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 Tony, you have made me a happy man i wasnt to bothered about the lowering anyway id just get a rear splitter or something if the car looks odd when i get the spacer. Also,would you know what the max spacer i could use on the rear is? Also, i am sorry but, what is the rear toe? and how do i change it lol.... i know me coming on a wheel forum and asking a question like that probably makes me look like a rght doughnut lol Thank Anthony Geometry and chassis calibration is a complicated field....... No one Ever...ever gets belittled in wim, tiss the rule I would suggest you use the correct spacer for you to achive the cosmetice look you desire. 99% of Geometry problems accore on the front so modifications like yours at the rear are Geometrically affordable. The spacers will change where on the tyre the cars weight is distributed but it's "affordable" since the rear on the coupe is so light. We also have a Geometric tool on your car and that's the rear toe. The toe is the longitudinal position of the tyre relative to the direction of travel, is it's contact with the road head on (a 0 toe) or is it's contact from the outside in (positive toe) inside out (negative toe) Example 4mm total miss-Alignment say 2mm per wheel based on a 15" wheel drags the tyres sideways (laterally) 8.4 metres (28 feet) per mile. So with all that drag you can manipulate the toe position and use it as a force. On the rear of your car we use that force to add/remove traction also known as tyre saturation limits. Example To help your car oversteer we reduce the saturation limits so that the tyre contact patch is less busy... If done in small increments the optimum position can be found so that you as a driver can feel the progression from the rear contact patch when pushing the car to it's limits. If the limits are to low then the tyre will wound up the toe in the sidewall and let go without warning.... To high then it's 360d time on every bend. The correct toe is very easy to establish but needs to be manufactured not forecast since your car is unique. Questions invited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 pics are required me thinks Pics of what? I havent got the 50mm spacer or lowering springs yet... or do you mean of my actual car? the actual car, preferably with 20" wheels on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voicey Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 I can oblige with a shot from a recent meet: And here's a group shot with my coupe in: I have to say I didn't think ant's wheels would look any good but they are absolutly stunning in the flesh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 looks nice they actually suit the car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 Looks nice..... Very nice indeed. Question though?....... Any issues with the front brakes running cool.... Reason i ask is due to the lower revolutions sometimes there is a need to run competition pads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudymanz Posted October 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Looks nice..... Very nice indeed. Question though?....... Any issues with the front brakes running cool.... Reason i ask is due to the lower revolutions sometimes there is a need to run competition pads. I dont know what revolutions are lol... i dont really understand what you answered before but am getting there so will read it a few more times Heres more pictures of my car: Thanks for the comments aswell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudymanz Posted November 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 Im back .... does anyone know where to get custom made spacers from in the UK? Thanks Ant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Some good links here> http://www.kellysearch.co.uk/gb-product-124230.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudymanz Posted December 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 Hi, Ive been able to source a set of spacers (50mm for the rear, 45mm for the front)..... back to the geometry issue again,... do you think id be able to lower the car 20mm (front AND rear) without any issues? Also, i understand about the + and - toe, but if i need to change it then how can i tell which way i need to go? (how will the car feel if it needs to be mre - or more +)? Thanks for all your help guys (Tony ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 Hi, Ive been able to source a set of spacers (50mm for the rear, 45mm for the front)..... back to the geometry issue again,... do you think id be able to lower the car 20mm (front AND rear) without any issues?Also, i understand about the + and - toe, but if i need to change it then how can i tell which way i need to go? (how will the car feel if it needs to be mre - or more +)? Thanks for all your help guys (Tony ) You will have issues with tyre wear if the car is lowered.... You need to find some camber correction kits.. I'll have a look around for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudymanz Posted December 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 Hi, Ive been able to source a set of spacers (50mm for the rear, 45mm for the front)..... back to the geometry issue again,... do you think id be able to lower the car 20mm (front AND rear) without any issues?Also, i understand about the + and - toe, but if i need to change it then how can i tell which way i need to go? (how will the car feel if it needs to be mre - or more +)? Thanks for all your help guys (Tony ) You will have issues with tyre wear if the car is lowered.... You need to find some camber correction kits.. I'll have a look around for you Thanks mate... if it ends up being to much work/money then ill forget the lowerin completely, because its not a major thing for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 Hi, Ive been able to source a set of spacers (50mm for the rear, 45mm for the front)..... back to the geometry issue again,... do you think id be able to lower the car 20mm (front AND rear) without any issues?Also, i understand about the + and - toe, but if i need to change it then how can i tell which way i need to go? (how will the car feel if it needs to be mre - or more +)? Thanks for all your help guys (Tony ) You will have issues with tyre wear if the car is lowered.... You need to find some camber correction kits.. I'll have a look around for you Thanks mate... if it ends up being to much work/money then ill forget the lowerin completely, because its not a major thing for me Personally i feel the 20's with spaces and a suspension drop will open a real can-O-worms for you.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudymanz Posted December 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 no lowering then :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 no lowering then :) Save your money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudymanz Posted December 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 Will do.... hmmmm, now what to spend it on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 Will do.... hmmmm, now what to spend it on wim Gold is only £20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudymanz Posted February 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Thanks for your help guys, I have now got on order a set of custom made hubcentric spacers (2x45mm and 2x50mm) They should look great when fitted and really push the wheels out to the limit Quick question..... when I have these massive spacers fitted, can i still drive the same as I usually do (well not usually, but can i drive hard etc like a standard wheel with no spacer?) and will I notice any handling differences? Thanks Anthony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Thanks for your help guys, I have now got on order a set of custom made hubcentric spacers (2x45mm and 2x50mm)They should look great when fitted and really push the wheels out to the limit Quick question..... when I have these massive spacers fitted, can i still drive the same as I usually do (well not usually, but can i drive hard etc like a standard wheel with no spacer?) and will I notice any handling differences? Thanks Anthony My only concern is the front scrub radius... Basically you will move the steer axis contact patch inboard.... If you find the car feels nervous with the spacers fitted then a camber kit will be needed to compensate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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