De-cat

[Jap Devil]

"Mapping" is all about hooking up to the car's ECU, usually through a laptop, and altering the fuelling and timing parameters based upon the additional power the engine is outputting.

 

For example, replacing the standard CT20 turbo on an MR2 with an uprated TD06 will give another 50+bhp. The stock 540cc injectors will just about be maxed out so it'll be a good move to fit uprated 800cc injectors. However the ECU will still think it's running 540's and only pump fuel for 540's. So a remap will optimize performance.

[Tony]

"Mapping" is all about hooking up to the car's ECU, usually through a laptop, and altering the fuelling and timing parameters based upon the additional power the engine is outputting.

 

For example, replacing the standard CT20 turbo on an MR2 with an uprated TD06 will give another 50+bhp. The stock 540cc injectors will just about be maxed out so it'll be a good move to fit uprated 800cc injectors. However the ECU will still think it's running 540's and only pump fuel for 540's. So a remap will optimize performance.

 

Bare with me here cos I'm very 'thick' in this area.... so dumb question.... if the ECU can be re-mapped then why are there so many models on the market... and why does the chip have a programmable memory if the target car is intended to be stock by manufacturer?.... it just seems generous that the manufacturer over-constructs the ECU for future development.... can you read my ignorance

[Jap Devil]

Manufacturers use the same ECU for different engines, this way they can reduce inventory, by programming the ECU for various configurations.

[jon]

I think there might be a bit of mis-understanding, as a rule Tony stock ECU's can't be remapped, at least not to any degree needed for uprated internals.

 

There are different types of replacement ECU's, from piggyback systems that sit infront of the stock ECU and change the settings before and after the stock ECU processes them to full replacement ECUs.

 

Again, there are different levels of replacement ECU's that allow you to control different amount of functions through the engine and at different frequencies. Some of the top level ecus allow 4d fuel mapping and can take into account pretty much any sensor reading in real time, have a look around for a motec m4 spec list.

 

As for why, well that's obvious. You need the right amount of fuel and the right amount of ignition advance to have the ultimate power, and a decent mapping session will set all that up for you.

[Tony]

Manufacturers use the same ECU for different engines, this way they can reduce inventory, by programming the ECU for various configurations.

I understand.... Mazda for arguments sake would have a global chip with the ability to cover all within the specific range.... In continuation though, since a car like yours is so modified how absolute is the mapping?... is it trail and error, set by previous nearest example or totally conclusive?.... i wonder in ore how with the complexities of induction/injection/compression/combustion then exhaust (new five stroke engine ) how accurate the mapping can be?

[Adie]

I know absolutely nothing about this

 

But from my understanding you start most of the time with a base map. Then you alter the mapping from there to what modifications the car being mapped has. As its done on a computer / laptop etc, it gives graphs and figures of the different parameters.. fuelling etc. You can then see what needs to be done mapping wise to the car. What needs altering etc.

 

If you get a proper "mapper" in the first place that knows what they are doing, then the map should be conclusive of what your car can handle at that precise stage of tune..

 

 

 

 

(Non of this probably make sense,, as read mt first statement )

[Tony]

I know absolutely nothing about this

 

But from my understanding you start most of the time with a base map. Then you alter the mapping from there to what modifications the car being mapped has. As its done on a computer / laptop etc, it gives graphs and figures of the different parameters.. fuelling etc. You can then see what needs to be done mapping wise to the car. What needs altering etc.

 

If you get a proper "mapper" in the first place that knows what they are doing, then the map should be conclusive of what your car can handle at that precise stage of tune..

 

 

 

 

(Non of this probably make sense,, as read mt first statement )

 

We both suffer the same ignorance.. but for the right reasons The power house and Geometry are in a marriage, if wim is to continue to advise in the modified area then the evolution of the engine needs to be explored to encourage vision rather than ignore it though uneducated denial.

 

tdiplc i feel may need to assist wim in this area.. i personally feel uncomfortable guiding people without the wim 'Motto'..... 'Excellence is not a skill it is an attitude'.

[Tony]

Quote:TDIPLC

 

Conclusively i think!..... Even i understood some of your explanation. Something i feel is strange is that after spending much money adding engine modifications is people would then want the mapping done on the cheap or with inferiore chips

 

Is there graphical evidence of the mapping when done?..... Like a performance scale/peak.... If yes does TDIPLC offer a 'Validation' service by analysing the report.

 

Example: Everyday i have people send me Geometry reports, in an instant i can see the good and bad within it... from there i would advise the customer if things are wrong.....At the moment this i do for free but in the future a 'Validation' fee is a reasonable request..... Also often i find that once i make the discrepancies obvious , the owner would just travel to me so i can set the car weather this is because the owner does not want conflict in the shop or realises there work is just not up to scratch i don't know.

[TDIPLC]

Conclusively i think!..... Even i understood some of your explanation. Something i feel is strange is that after spending much money adding engine modifications is people would then want the mapping done on the cheap or with inferiore chips

 

This issue is worthy of a thread on it's own. It's an "education" issue I believe as there is little information in the public domain to help a customer to choose the most appropriate solution, so it's not his fault if he get's tempted or misled into buying the wrong thing. On the other hand, at the lower end of the market there are customers that actively seek the cheapest solution (which normally ends up being the most expensive). Just the last three months alone we have seen customers waste collectively approx £50k on "cheap" products that ended up being replaced. Two of these are still in our workshop and belong to normal guys that can ill afford to waste money - they got tempted by rubbush from the US and Ebay etc etc.

 

Is there graphical evidence of the mapping when done?..... Like a performance scale/peak.... If yes does TDIPLC offer a 'Validation' service by analysing the report.

 

Most of the good ecu's allow a 3D graphical print out of the values, but it's fairly meaningless without a validation test of the car on the dyno.

 

To answer the question (sorry to ramble on - just doing my bit for anyone that's interested), yes we do offer vailidation testing but we have to have the whole car, not just a printout.

 

Regarding this issue the question is this; what does a customer expect exactly from an ecu "remap"? Is the answer ;

A) Absolute perfection - impossible to improve upon,

B)Almost perfect - can be improved with further time/money,

C) Better than it was before.

D) No better than it was before.

 

If the job is done to a price it's more likely that you will end up with C or D, but you expect A (that's human nature). If you are paying for job to be done and paid for on a "time spent" basis you should expect the result to be A or B as you are not imposing any financial contraints on the firm. If you do not get A or B you have every right to complain.

 

 

 

A perfect example is a Skyine we had in recently that had been "remapped" by a faily well known tuner. The ecu had hardly any recalibration done to it, so after validation we were able to make some substantial improvements to the performance by spending some time on recalibration. The funny thing is that the customer didn't realise how bad it was until it was done properly.

 

Another example is a couple of STi Imprezzas we have done this year. Both had been "reflashed" by a Subaru Tuner to run 1.5 bar of boost. We reduced the boost pressure to 1.2 bar, recalibrated the ecu and got another 40hp at the hubs. More power with less boost - that is the true art of tuning.

 

These are important points - I am sure that there are alot of people out there thinking that they have already been "remapped" without realising that it it's quite possible that it can be done better. It's just a point of finding the right person/firm and then taking the time/spending the money

[juzzyp]

I agree with all the points above.

 

When going for a turbo install - 4 days will take up on install time, while another 4-5 days will be set aside for tuning, I researched ECU's to death.

 

We're lucky in the Mazda world as one ECU was specifically written for the MX5 engine and the turbos that come with it called the "Link ECU" this solution is brilliant but "still" needs to "calibrated" to effectively gain the full potential from the install. Im actually having an eManage Blue installed as this fits in nicely to the solution I having installed soon, this was not done at a price point but as a solution to what I wanted.

 

Unofrtunately alot of people bolt AFPR's (high pressure fuel pumps) to very low budget kits and add all these other toys to deal with fueling and timing and usually end up losing a piston and losing lots of fuel.