Tony Posted September 22, 2007 Report Share Posted September 22, 2007 A customer supplied his own Eibach 30mm lowering springs for his 4x4 looking stock Mazda MK3 NC reduced in price online from £119+ to £70+. We did the install and "da da dar" 20mm higher than when we started.... Apparently the coils where up-rated versions for the EU regulation pedestrian impact springs not lowering springs.. Moral of this story is.... Because it's cheap doesn't necessarily mean it does what it says on the tin.... Shop wisely peeps... NB: Thank you Shaun@TDi for your help regarding this customers problems.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janey Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 LOL, I had a similar situation, changed the shocks & springs to what was supposed to be -30mm and the car ended up higher (poss a lot to do with the fact that my model came with uprated bilsteins as standard which were obviously lower than stock) So ended up having to get -45mm springs (more £'s) to actually lower it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 I'd never heard of this That said, most SW20s run adjustable height coil overs as their fairly cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janey Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 I'd never heard of this That said, most SW20s run adjustable height coil overs as their fairly cheap. Theres quite a few roadster owners who have had the same prob although I think I'm one of the very few who admit to being a ninny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarkMalbot Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 I am wanting to get a set of lowering springs for my standard shocks. I am wanting to go with the Eibach option as I am happy with the handling of the car as standard but would just like it to look lower. I have noticed there is a 30mm drop option from the standard Mazda Eibach lowering kit but I see that IL motorsport through MX5parts.co.uk are selling Eibach 45mm lowered springs. I would like it to look low but dont want to ride too hard or the wheels to touch the arches etc etc. Will the 45mm drop be a good option over the 30mm drop? And problems dropping it this 15mm futher? I am 300 miles away so bringing it in for Geo check is not really an option. I am trying to find somewhere in Carlise that will be able to do it but I dont trust most garages.. I dont know if I should buy the springs and let Mazda fit them or take it to a good local garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarkMalbot Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Just been on the Eibach website and the two kits available are Pro kit with 1.5 inch front and 1.3 inch rear and the Sportline Kit with 2.0 inch drop front and rear. As standard is the car level and why does the Pro kit lower the front more than the back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Just been on the Eibach website and the two kits available are Pro kit with 1.5 inch front and 1.3 inch rear and the Sportline Kit with 2.0 inch drop front and rear. As standard is the car level and why does the Pro kit lower the front more than the back? Hello TarkMalbot... I have done much research since the post was opened... My new findings are> 1> The EU compliant coils are black 2> The Eibach aftermarket coils are yellow -30mm and if fitted will invalidate certain areas of the cars warranty if fitted. 3> The Mazda approved Eibach coils are blue -30mm and will not invalidate the warranty but are only available through Mazda 4> Apart from the color (yellow-blue) and part number the Eibach coils are the same. The Sportline coils are more orientated for the track car hence the lower front.... Point to note about the Sportline suspension is that it will have a more aggressive Geometry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarkMalbot Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 So what would you recommend? Going to Mazda and paying £300 for the Blue springs or pay £115 for yellow springs and get fitted elsewhere? Any reason why the rear is not dropped as much as the front on the Pro Kit and what does the agressive geometry do to the car? I'm only asking so many questions because the car is only 2 months old and I don't want to spoil whats right with the car but cant help wanting it lower and I don't know if I go for the 30mm I will look back and say "I wish I had gone for the 45mm". Thanks very much. Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 So what would you recommend? Going to Mazda and paying £300 for the Blue springs or pay £115 for yellow springs and get fitted elsewhere? Any reason why the rear is not dropped as much as the front on the Pro Kit and what does the agressive geometry do to the car? I'm only asking so many questions because the car is only 2 months old and I don't want to spoil whats right with the car but cant help wanting it lower and I don't know if I go for the 30mm I will look back and say "I wish I had gone for the 45mm". Thanks very much. Mark. Buy the blue coils from Mazda and have them fitted where ever.... The £300 quote from Mazda also includes the Geometry..... But be careful?.. To explain. My association with the MK3 was the handling complaints from owners who had the "stock" suspension height... I noted the chassis positions was pants, hence the complaints... I also noted that cars that had been lowered 30mm needed very little correction. So.... In continuation of my research i asked some owners who had the car lowered by Mazda if i could measure the chassis to see how well it had been set..... Three of the four cars i measured had not been set correctly or at all... I feel the reason for this is once the car is lowered 30mm it (should) fall back into the OEM settings.... Emphasis on should! If you decide to have Mazda fit them insist on a Geometry report..... Warn them in advance you will not pay unless you have proof the chassis has been measured.... All the owners i have dealt with where not given a report. If you lower more than 30mm (below OEM design) then it's assumed you have fast road or track intentions for the car... In this event the sprung body height will adopt a different attitude for Geometric or aerodynamic reasons. The deferential between front and rear will depend on the coil manufacture and their promise. A more aggressive Geometry is affordable on a track car since the Geometric gains are less but this is not without consequence, this being adverse tyre wear. Also to note.... Of the 100's of MK3 i have calibrated, some owners also had bought coils in case the handling still felt poor.... Most of the owners decided not to install the coils after the calibration was set. So even the 4X4 MK3 can handle well once the chassis is calibrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarkMalbot Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Thanks very much for that. I will just go for the 30mm then. I will ask how much it is from Mazda just for the parts and then work out labour costs etc etc. Do you know of anywhere in the Carlisle area that would be better fitting and setting Geometry than the Mazda garage? If not and when I come down south for a few days I will give you a call and see if you can fit me in for a check up? If I get Mazda to supply and fit and ask for a chassis report afterwards what should I be expecting to see so I know they have done it correctly? In regards to Toe, Camber etc etc? PS. Thanks for the quick responses and sound advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Thanks very much for that. I will just go for the 30mm then. I will ask how much it is from Mazda just for the parts and then work out labour costs etc etc. Do you know of anywhere in the Carlisle area that would be better fitting and setting Geometry than the Mazda garage? If not and when I come down south for a few days I will give you a call and see if you can fit me in for a check up? If I get Mazda to supply and fit and ask for a chassis report afterwards what should I be expecting to see so I know they have done it correctly? In regards to Toe, Camber etc etc? PS. Thanks for the quick responses and sound advice. Unfortunately i cannot recommend a fitting centre near you..... If Mazda agree to give you a copy of the Geometry after installation i would go with them for £300.... Then either email me or post the report here and we will validate the positions.... If they are wrong i will contact Mazda for you and tell them where and why the positions are wrong and insist they invite you back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarkMalbot Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 That sounds good to me! I will phone Mazda now and get it booked in! I will ask on the phone about geometry reports too and see what they say. Thanks, Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 That sounds good to me! I will phone Mazda now and get it booked in! I will ask on the phone about geometry reports too and see what they say. Thanks, Mark. Mark tell them don't ask..... If they intend to do the job as promised then your request shouldn't be a problem. One area i noted was that most Mazda dealers don't have the equipment in house so they are reluctant to offer a report with another companies name on it..... Be wise to that and explain you don't care but you want a report regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarkMalbot Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Just spoke to Mazda and... My Car is booked in for the lowering kit on Monday 14th Jan the day after I come home from Ski-ing. Cost is £300 and it takes about 3-4 hours according to their system. When asked if that included after fitting set-up of the chassis and geometry and the guy on the phone said "Sorry I dont understand what you mean. We have never fitted one of these kits before". I was a little worried at this point so explained why it is needed after changing suspension compartments and he said he is sure that will be included. To make sure it is I said I would want the results to show it had been done. Also getting a courtesy car for the day included in the price. A few more pennies than I originally wanted to spend but at least if they mess up I can complain, the warranty is still valid and I will have a Mazda invoice for future ref when I come to sell on. I will take some before and after pics and measurements and the setup results. If you think they are not right I will be requesting they get it done properly. And hopefully there will be no scuffs on the wheels, rounded bolts, scratched paintwork etc etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 What they probably haven't told you is that you also need a full tank of fuel for the Geometry as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarkMalbot Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 No they didn't tell me that. I will do though and I think I read that on MX-5.com in a post I started a few days back. In fact it was someone quoting you. lol. I am pretty sure they will just swap the springs and not do anything with geometry but I can only wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 No they didn't tell me that. I will do though and I think I read that on MX-5.com in a post I started a few days back. In fact it was someone quoting you. lol. I am pretty sure they will just swap the springs and not do anything with geometry but I can only wait and see. That's why that report is so valuable..... When you take the car in remind them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarkMalbot Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Well I have just got back from the Mazda garage... Firstly they don't know how to spell Geometry never mind what it is or how to set it.. I did ask before dropping the car off if the service included set-up and they ensured it would all be fine. They told me it would be ready in 3 to 4 hours. I took it in at 8:30 so at 13:00 I called to see if it was ready (wanted it back to fit my exhaust). It wasn't ready and had to wait till 4pm before they called to say I could come and pick it up.. So 7 1/2 hours after dropping it off and the car had 4 mor emiles on the clock. I know they needed to test it but do they really need to do 4 miles? When I asked about the geometry the guy at the desk didn't have a clue so asked for the mechanic to speak to me. He says that was a simple job of taking the shocks off, swapping springs and that there was no need to set anything up as it was not adjusted during the change.. I tried to explain but I think his mind was on Bannanas or something. Are you still willing to phone them up and exaplain so maybe they will pay to get it looked at? I didn't have the knowledge to argure too much. I wasn't best pleased but handed over the £300 anyway. I measured up and it went from 67cm to 63.5cm from the floor to highest point on the wheel arch. So at least it is 35mm lower. I had to ask for the original springs back too! I don't need them but that wasn't the point. I might want it back one day or at least have the option too when I come to sell. The only other point was the car had been washed. Not sure if I was happy about this or not. I paid over £80 in cleaning products to polish the swirl marks out left by them when I picked it up from new and to protect and wax my car properly and then they will probably have just washed it with "Wash N Wax" with a dirty sponge.. I will have to inspect in day light. On the plus side the car does look clean. I was impressed by the road holding on the way home but its only about a mile of motorway so couldn't tell much. The noise and ride were the main things worrying me before but I havn't noticed any difference between before and after so that's good news. There is less body roll and the car looks much better! £300 well spent? Not sure but don't really care. Its done now and I have a Mazda stamp on the Invoice so there can't be any grumbles regarding warranty in the future. I might have a go at fitting my exhaust later on the drive in the dark. Or might leave it till Wednesday as I'm away tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 The spring install is 2 hours tops hence the £300 quote at Mazda prices........... Why did it take 7.5 hours?... Odd. Also in the price the Geometry is meant to be re-set?.... certainly in other dealerships so i am concerned your has not. Pm me your details and their number and i will contact them for you. On the plus side.... Well done i'm pleased you know have a MK3 that looks right and more or less handles right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Get ready to set your face on stun I contacted the Dealer for TarkMalbot and asked service if his car had been calibrated after the lowering.... Here is how the conversation went on the phone > Can you tell me if the Geometry was re-set since he doesn't have a printout or evidence on the receipt < With all due respect sir who are you? > My name is Tony from wheels-inmotion and i was asked to assist TarkMalbot < wheels-inmotion > Yes wheels-inmotion < I need to speak to Technical, can i phone you back ................................ < The Geometry was NOT re-set after the coils were fitted and Paul at Technical says it's not neccacary since non of the adjuster bolts are touched > Can i speak to Paul because i think he needs to be re-educated in this area < No > I agree by lowering no adjusters are moved but the sprung area of the car and the radius of the suspension components has changed, so the calibration must be wrong! < I think i understand... I need to speak to Technical can i phone you back again. .................................. < Paul in Technical says the Geometry may be wrong and advises TarkMalbot has this tested > Can you do this? < Yes > Excellent, so you will invite him back and complete the installation < Yes but he will need to pay extra > Is this for real!.. By your own confession and Technical you agree the calibration is incorrect after the lowering and you want to add additional fees to the £300 already paid. < Well yes, Geometry is not part of the installation > But you know it's wrong after, i don't understand your logic... Maybe you need to reassess how this is addressed in the future because if the handling is impaired then you are liable < Well yes apparently > Ok in this particular case are you willing to go the extra mile and finish the job for TarkMalbot < Yes, but he will need to pay > He's already paid!!... We're getting nowhere here. Personally i feel really disappointed with the attitude, even more so in view of the evidence and the fact you are now aware of this dangerous problem. < Well we've lowered three or four cars and no one has complained before > Their probably dead in a bush somewhere < That's just being stupid you have no reason to say that > I hope i never will... I apologize for being rude but i feel very annoyed... To me what you have done is like fitting a steering rack and saying a steering wheel is extra.. It should be part of the job. < Well like i said TarkMalbot is welcome to come back and we will finish the job > Finish!!! < Figure of speech... > Ok (sigh) i will pass this on to TarkMalbot...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 > Their probably dead in a bush somewhere Genius! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 > Their probably dead in a bush somewhere Genius! Scary thing is it's probably true..... Mind you the chap on the phone wasn't impressed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarkMalbot Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Well thanks for trying. Looks like I will have to put up with it or pay someone to "Finish" the job off. Won't be taking it back to Mazda though! And i'm even more glad I didn't put any fuel back in the loan car now. lol. Thanks again. Tark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alnug Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 the more i get to know about geometry, balancing etc the more paranoid i become...i get annoyed when people tell me my car might need 'tracking'........anyway it just goes to show you how knowledge is power here......for the less well educated they would probably have walked away thinking that what the dealership has done is a through job and that that is all that can be expected with the car when it clearly isn't! Just makes you think how many people are suffering driveability issues after going to an authority (their dealer in this case) who states that everything is fine and sends you on your way.....way too much book passing these days...that's why i've tried to learn as much about doing things around the car myself so then i know it's done right.........i get paranoid having anyone else touch it these days... ........anyway hope you get the car sorted soon TarkMalbot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 the more i get to know about geometry, balancing etc the more paranoid i become...i get annoyed when people tell me my car might need 'tracking' I know how you feel mate, the more I've learnt about the subject the more I try to pass on to others what I know....however, most don't believe me, for example changing the tyres around if you experience a pull before having the alignment checked. They're convinced this wouldn't change anything as tyres are tyres and it must be the tracking that's out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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