Tony Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 The most common complaint after front wheel alignment is the end position of the steering wheel this is a visual indication that 1: The workmanship was poor 2: The equipment is inadequate 3: Alignment was never the real problem 4: The manufactured cars axle is miss-aligned Nearly every alignment test in the World is sold to the customer by the shop based on visual wear on the tyres at the end of there life, inevitable history of past alignment problems would still exist on the face of the tyre, born from this visible wear and potential loss of the new replacements a customer could assume a problem still exists and is easily sold. Taking 1 to 4 here are my thoughts)- 1: No legal responsibility is required to ascertain the understanding of the technician who sets the direction of your £50.000 (theoretical) car with the new £500 front tyres, most common is a 'drive by' smattering of knowledge that involves undoing of nuts and about ten minutes additional time whilst you pay the bill, (so knowledge maybe why) 2: There are many machines on the market that promise different levels of alignment, most common is 'front wheel alignment' this form is the most damaging and by today's standard only suitable for the horse and cart, can i remind you that the car has 'Four Wheels', (so the equipment maybe why) 3: With the magnitude of problems expressed though the tyres during their life span it would be easy to assume alignment is to blame. Current issues with the Geometry or the cars health in general will cause untold affects toward the tyres and handling, this does not dismiss the fact that 'at the time' the alignment may be incorrect, (so maybe the car is why) 4: There are occasional manufacturing reasons that deceives the operator, this is unusual and depends on equipment, this is most times geometrically undetectable (so maybe the construction is why) Taking all possibilities into consideration the common denominator is the Thrust Angle the cars true centre that most angles depend on as reference......simple as that! (click to re-size) Any method that attempts to imagine the front wheels forward position relative the the fixed rear thrust angle will result in the need for the driver to compensate and manufacture a new centre line at the steering wheel, if any adjustments made do not respect the true 'Thrust Angle' then the resulting drive will mean the steering wheel is off-line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoneDrome Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 What about this Technical Bulletin?: LINK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discount tyres dan Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 that bulletin is just showing how to put the steering wheel straight, bit of a cheat really because if the alignment was correct in the first place this problem wouldn't exist, as tony quoted in his post if the thrust-line is dead centre then front wheels can be set to match with no problem, but if the rear wheels are slightly toeing to one side, then even though the front tracking may appear to be correct the steering will need to be held at an angle to correct the problem. ever seen an old mini 'crabbing'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony9r Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 that bulletin is just showing how to put the steering wheel straight, bit of a cheat really because if the alignment was correct in the first place this problem wouldn't exist, as tony quoted in his post if the thrust-line is dead centre then front wheels can be set to match with no problem, but if the rear wheels are slightly toeing to one side, then even though the front tracking may appear to be correct the steering will need to be held at an angle to correct the problem. ever seen an old mini 'crabbing'? "ever seen an old mini 'crabbing'?"... that is so funny when I get behind one doing that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 that bulletin is just showing how to put the steering wheel straight, bit of a cheat really because if the alignment was correct in the first place this problem wouldn't exist, as tony quoted in his post if the thrust-line is dead centre then front wheels can be set to match with no problem, but if the rear wheels are slightly toeing to one side, then even though the front tracking may appear to be correct the steering will need to be held at an angle to correct the problem. ever seen an old mini 'crabbing'? "ever seen an old mini 'crabbing'?"... that is so funny when I get behind one doing that Indeed i wonder if extreme Geometry positions are illegal? Like crabbing or very low camber? i think i will ask........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discount tyres dan Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 good point, if a car was pulled over and mr plod thought that a wheel was a bit wonky what could he do? i have had a 14 day rectification notice before for illegal plates and had to have them changed and then get an mot station to stamp (embosed) a form that i needed to post back to prove the work was done. as wheel alignment isnt part of an mot would it just be joints and bushes that were checked? might be one to do a bit of research on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 as wheel alignment isnt part of an mot would it just be joints and bushes that were checked? might be one to do a bit of research on! Did you know that in Germany wheel alignment is part of the MOT test!.... these are wise people methinks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussie aligner Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 this is all very well and good but unfortunatley no wheel alignment machine can allow for poor chassis trueness. in australia the majority of vechicles are rear wheel drive with no adjustment, i only do thrust alignments and 6 out 0f 10 cars will have the wheel slightly down to one side, hence proving the thrust line of the vehicle is out, not much you can do with cars that have had side impacts etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 "no wheel alignment machine can allow for poor chassis trueness" true but the machine can identify the poor chassis condition. What's the average thrust measurement you find? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussie aligner Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 "no wheel alignment machine can allow for poor chassis trueness" true but the machine can identify the poor chassis condition. What's the average thrust measurement you find? varys really, some older model ford falcons i.e 1973 to 1985 with watts link rear can have massive amounts of toe variance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 Out of interest what machine do you have and what increment of measurement do you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussie aligner Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Out of interest what machine do you have and what increment of measurement do you use? mondolfo 728, i use degrees for camber castor and mm for toe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Your wise to use minutes for toe not mm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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