Mazda MX-5 suspension

[Waz]

Hi Tony,

 

I posted what seems like 18months ago about a NA 1.8 Eunos, that needed some faults finding to correct a leaning to RHS.

 

I initially replaced the old and tired shocks and springs (with KONI STR.T - so quite low), but while improving the ride, it didn't cure the lean!

 

Later I found the (main) culprit, being a RHS front lower wishbone bent from some off-road excursion by the previous owner. Replaced and roughly adjusted, this seemed to be it.

 

Later still, (this weekend) I was maintaining the underbody sealer and recognised a bent ARB at the rear. I assume the same 'event' as the front end was to blame, and thankfully, nothing else seems out. It fits the theory that it's the RHS and effectively is trying to pull up the drop link more than the LHS when the car is stationary, so could be the last 5% of the lean, that I couldn't find till now.

In fact if I lift the RHRear wheel arch, the car flattens out nicely.

 

 

So the big question, how likely is it that I could straighten this ARB?, or should I not bother, given it's a sprung steel and probably won't want to play?

I also notice that my '5 seems to 'flop' from side to side if I'm switching direction, more than I expected - is this the ARB being deformed or is it overly weakened anyway if the back end seems loose.

 

Sorry for the essay, thanks in advance,

 

Warren.

[Tony]

Hi Warren

The ARB is a "memory metal" so other than a crash the only way to change it's shape is with heat, this would make the ARB brittle so useless.

 

Although the ARB on the 5 is floating it's shape has a tuned transverse loading, meaning if the bar is deformed the loading may allow more of less roll resistance.

[hms]

Hi Tony,

 

I posted what seems like 18months ago about a NA 1.8 Eunos, that needed some faults finding to correct a leaning to RHS.

 

I initially replaced the old and tired shocks and springs (with KONI STR.T - so quite low), but while improving the ride, it didn't cure the lean!

 

Later I found the (main) culprit, being a RHS front lower wishbone bent from some off-road excursion by the previous owner. Replaced and roughly adjusted, this seemed to be it.

 

Later still, (this weekend) I was maintaining the underbody sealer and recognised a bent ARB at the rear. I assume the same 'event' as the front end was to blame, and thankfully, nothing else seems out. It fits the theory that it's the RHS and effectively is trying to pull up the drop link more than the LHS when the car is stationary, so could be the last 5% of the lean, that I couldn't find till now.

In fact if I lift the RHRear wheel arch, the car flattens out nicely.

 

 

So the big question, how likely is it that I could straighten this ARB?, or should I not bother, given it's a sprung steel and probably won't want to play?

I also notice that my '5 seems to 'flop' from side to side if I'm switching direction, more than I expected - is this the ARB being deformed or is it overly weakened anyway if the back end seems loose.

 

Sorry for the essay, thanks in advance,

 

Warren.

 

An ARB, if it's the standard one should be cheap to pick up from with a scrappy or someone like Autolinkuk who break 5's.

I would suspect the bending of the ARB has changed it's characteristics which is leading to the handling issues.

If you haven't done already, I'd go around and check the remainder of the suspension for peace of mind. Are the drop links OK?

h

[Waz]

Thanks, I'll be looking to get a spare one from Autolink, they're quite close to me. I have been looking for any other visible damage that might have been part of the original event, but I think the only evidence the previous owner has left me was the wishbone that I've replaced and this ARB distortion.

 

When I first viewed the car, I thought the MR2 wheels fitted were an odd choice, hence the BBS alloys that I picked up as soon as I could. On reflection, I think the original wheels were probably trashed in the accident and if I had to guess some parts of the RHS suspension were replaced to make it serviceable, but not a thorough enough job. I found that the rear shock was spent and the springs on the rear really sagged, which is why I replaced a full set.

 

For alignment - are there any more partners imminent in the south? I'm mid-way between Southampton and Brighton, and after all the troubleshooting, I'd like to get her set-up expertly at the same time as replacing tyres.

[Tony]

You can check for centres on our map> http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/tyre-fitting-centres.php but in view of the impact it's one i would like to see.

[Waz]

You can check for centres on our map> http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/tyre-fitting-centres.php but in view of the impact it's one i would like to see.

 

I'd hate to make Horror of the week, but in lieu of the every corner a different ride height, I tend to agree!

 

What would your bookings look like for 29th Oct? I've got some time off work and could be an opportunity for the long haul - I think I need to ask you for 4x 195/50-15's to make the whole trip the highest efficiency!

[Tony]

You can check for centres on our map> http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/tyre-fitting-centres.php but in view of the impact it's one i would like to see.

 

I'd hate to make Horror of the week, but in lieu of the every corner a different ride height, I tend to agree!

 

What would your bookings look like for 29th Oct? I've got some time off work and could be an opportunity for the long haul - I think I need to ask you for 4x 195/50-15's to make the whole trip the highest efficiency!

 

What make of tyre are you thinking?

[Waz]

You can check for centres on our map> http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/tyre-fitting-centres.php but in view of the impact it's one i would like to see.

 

I'd hate to make Horror of the week, but in lieu of the every corner a different ride height, I tend to agree!

 

What would your bookings look like for 29th Oct? I've got some time off work and could be an opportunity for the long haul - I think I need to ask you for 4x 195/50-15's to make the whole trip the highest efficiency!

 

What make of tyre are you thinking?

 

I've used Falkens on other cars due to the price point and been happy, (especially the FK452 on a Fiat Coupe 20VT, but not available in this size)

but I only know my '5 on the current Nankang's, an I've never been certain if the wet traction issues were the tyre type, the geo (which we know is off) or the loose nut behind the wheel!

 

Do you get particular good feedback on one type for the '5? I'm trying to be budget conscious, but I'm not looking for real budget tyres.

[Tony]

Falken do a ZE912 which i can do for £46 each all in, Toyo T1R for £50 all in and buget £40 all in.

[Waz]

Falken do a ZE912 which i can do for £46 each all in, Toyo T1R for £50 all in and buget £40 all in.

 

Can I give you a call to discuss tyres and possible dates? is the number on the blackboots website the right one?

 

I think I'll try and acquire an ARB pronto, as I can see mine is out of shape and get that on before I set off.

[Tony]

Falken do a ZE912 which i can do for £46 each all in, Toyo T1R for £50 all in and buget £40 all in.

 

Can I give you a call to discuss tyres and possible dates? is the number on the blackboots website the right one?

 

I think I'll try and acquire an ARB pronto, as I can see mine is out of shape and get that on before I set off.

 

No this number 01494 797825

[Waz]

Looking forward to Friday for the shiny new boots and a stretch from the chiropractor!

 

I've done my homework now, the ARB rear is not twisted or bent, but was off-set in the rubbers and was pulling the drop-links askew. I had to take it all off and slacken each joint and re-fitted 'loose' and then tightened up in the on it's wheels position - something I definitely did to the wishbone bolts when the new suspension went in, but I can't remember about the ARB connections, *hangs head*.

 

So, Hard-top's on for the winter and I'm ready for the haul to Bucks!

 

Cheers,

 

Warren.

[hms]

Well spotted on the ARB, however there is one major fault...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You've put the hardtop on for winter, get if off!

That allows you to get the roof down on some of the crisp autumn evenings, you'll be surprised how refreshing that can be!

h

[Tony]

The ARB is floating anyway, so within reason it will dislocate naturally depending on the chassis positions.

 

Read that twice............... Think it makes sense

[Waz]

Well spotted on the ARB, however there is one major fault...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You've put the hardtop on for winter, get if off!

That allows you to get the roof down on some of the crisp autumn evenings, you'll be surprised how refreshing that can be!

h

 

Yeah, for shame...

 

 

 

but I have a few reasons (excuses)

 

- no HRW in the softy,

- sound insulation for long m'way runs

- I just found a small nick in the vinyl that I can put off till next spring...

 

[Tony]

Ignore h, he's having a moment..... Put the hard top on, it's bloody cold outside.

[Waz]

Ignore h, he's having a moment..... Put the hard top on, it's bloody cold outside.

 

isn't it great how every job leads to another job?

 

Now it's window reg adjustment to stop it hitting the HT when shutting the door with the window up.

Which is probably why I took this week off,

 

not really for half term & sprog's B'Day!

[hms]

Ignore h, he's having a moment..... Put the hard top on, it's bloody cold outside.

 

Oi you!

What do you mean 'he's having a moment', I'll have you know I have lots of those!

 

h

[Tony]

Ignore h, he's having a moment..... Put the hard top on, it's bloody cold outside.

 

Oi you!

What do you mean 'he's having a moment', I'll have you know I have lots of those!

 

h

 

[Waz]

Hi Tony,

 

just got in a short while ago. A big thanks to you and your team for today's work, I can see why all feedback I've seen or heard about WIM is so positive, and it was very interesting to see in between the process of how the setting is made on the geo.

 

A quick first impression of the ride home, a great improvement in comfort over the previous settings, I think the old tyres were certainly hard and harsh. From what bendy roads I got a chance to travel closer to home, I felt that it is also much improved on carving turns and generally poised better on the road - the turn in sharpness that you expected is certainly present, but I think the slightly softer T1R's mute it a little, so it's not too much of a shock.

 

I'll make some more notes when I've done some more varied driving in different conditions, and I'm interested to see if the toe out you removed from the rear axle will yield any fuel consumption benefits due to not dragging it's hind leg along!

 

Cheers

 

Warren.

 

[Tony]

Cheers for the feedback.... I think when the tyres are scrubbed in and the road conditions a little better you will push her a little harder, it's at the point you really notice the difference.

[Waz]

Cheers for the feedback.... I think when the tyres are scrubbed in and the road conditions a little better you will push her a little harder, it's at the point you really notice the difference.

 

I've already noticed that I am trying to pre-empt behaviours in the car that no longer exist and as such I'm learning how she drives again, but each of the things I have been expecting even subconsciously are negatives, which I only notice when I do them, it's almost a nervous tick learned from what I'm expecting as a risk of what the car was doing, or what I asked it to do, and what I expected it to actually do, if that makes sense?

 

Looking forward to more adventures in my '5, it's like having a new car to play with again!

[Tony]

You are given a catalogue of warnings from wim before you leave because the cars handling, globally will change, so you need to adapt.... It takes a little time but i'm sure you will be fine.

[Waz]

Bit of an update,

 

had a proper wet nasty drive home tonight, which was excellent chance to compare how the new set-up is feeling.

 

I'm really impressed with the new settings, because I have now visited every place on the couple of home to work routes I regularly use that have !caution! places where it is difficult to make progress without losing traction, there are a few junctions and roundabouts that previously I would have to be really cautious on a wet road to avoid slippage and often steering the car with delicate throttle input was necessary, which now is a completely different story.

 

It's such a contrast, that even the wife commented that it was easier to pull away and blend into traffic without spinning or slipping the driving wheels on her last drive this week.

 

Now that's a small miracle that she can notice a car driving dynamic! She had an omega for 3-4 years that pulled right on braking and dived left on lift off after a wishbone replacement and drove it for 3 weeks without a word, I drove it once and accused her of hammering a kerb.

 

Other observations are that it's lighter on the steering, probably due to the reduced castor?, which I find a little sketchy on a straight road, probably because I'm trying too hard due to the previous set-up was too heavy, making me heavy handed.

 

As you predicted, it is really planted on the fast curves, which when I push on into a fast turn, it just digs in and carves through it. I find that if I am on throttle and lift off, it will tuck in tighter on turning even if I keep the angle of steering the same, which I guess is typical of the mx5? as it was always present since I've owned it.

 

I'm continuing to be respectful of my knowledge of the limits of the car have changed, but already finding it more confidence inspiring and enjoyable to drive. It is really important timing I think now that the winter weather is on it's way and standing water is a fact of life down here for most of the time in this season.

 

Thanks for all the help and big thumbs up to the fast-road settings, I'm a big fan and it's restored my confidence that the low suspension wasn't a backwards step - I'm sure there are more complete packages, but you've made what I've got really useful.

 

Is there a chance to get the pictures of the alignment graphics off the hunter, to go with the numerical data sheet? I don't know if you keep that aswell as the numbers, but it would be smart to have that as well.

 

Cheers,

 

Warren.

[Tony]

Reads like the "fast road" setup alright, we can add weight to the steering at speed if you like but you would loose some of that quick turn in feel.

 

As for the graphic image that's not a problem, just display the cars registration number so i can find the file.