Flynn Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 I havn't posted before so I'd better introduce myself before I post a question. I'm the proud (and rather paranoid) owner of a '94 Supra twin-turbo. I've had her since April last year and although I've had a few problems she's been utterly awesome. .....apart from one aspect..... THE HANDLING Before my Supra I had an FTO which went round corners like it was on rails and felt good at all times. The same cannot be said of my Supra. Ever since I got the Supra I've not liked the way it handled at all. It feels like it follows every camber change in the road. Sometimes it's like it's trying to pull you into all sorts of places on the road. Under braking this seems to be rather worse. At high speed on a good road surface it feels fine. It's B roads where it feels just terrible. It's very difficult to drive quickly because you're always having to correct the steering. I didn't set about trying to fix this straight away after I bought the car as I wanted to do some research into the problem and also fix a more fundamental problem in the one of my front wheels was warped and a rear flat-spotted. Now I have nice new wheels, running on 2 year old Eagle F1s. Also, I've been told that Supra's are sensitive to being lowered and also to running larger than standard wheels. My suspension is about 1 3/4" lowered and I have 18" wheels. (Standard wheels are 17s) The only thing is that I know of dozens of other Supra owners who run the same setup of even lowered further or have larger wheels and none of them complain that their Supra is trying to kill them all the time. In fact most say the handling is awesome. Now that I've sorted out my wheels I recently had a full suspension geometry setup done by a local motorsport garage to try and finally resolve my problems and they pretty much didn't change much apart from saying that I had 3 degrees of positive camber dialed in at the front. (Which apparently is bad) This they changed to be about 1 degree of negative and claimed this would radically change the handling for the better. Now the turn-in is much better and once you've committed to a corner the handling is great. But the twitchiness and pulling with the camber is still there. I'm reluctant to go back to the garage who did the suspension setup without more information and perhaps a suggestion as to how to fix the problem because I took the guy out in the car before he did the work and he couldn't see any problem with the handling. In fact he described it as "Supra-like". What I'm seeking is to understand what is making my car handle in this nervous, twitchy and highly irritating manner. Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discount tyres dan Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 hello and welcome, i dont supose the garage that set up th cars geometry gave a print out of the readings did they? this would help a great deal in assessing any adjustments made and any thurther develpment of the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Hello Flynn and welcome to wim. First to put your mind at rest the Supra has the ability to handle perfectly so the shop are talking 'Pants'....Is there any difference in the wheel off-set? between stock and the replacements. The F1's are directional in tread patten and rarely tram-line so that can be dismissed. The cars front camber position is -20' and there has been no mention for the castor position, did they measure that?... As Dan says the printout will show all is it possible you can link an image to wim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m8tte Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Hmmmmmm I had major problems with faulty eagle f1 tyres - took back to the factory to get replaced - goodyear warehouse full of faulty f1 tyres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Hmmmmmm I had major problems with faulty eagle f1 tyres - took back to the factory to get replaced - goodyear warehouse full of faulty f1 tyres Nothing is infallible.... What was the complaint? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m8tte Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 They went '50 pence' shaped apparently a manufacturing problem - when the newer version came out - they had plenty at the goodyear factory warehouse when i went to take them back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 They went '50 pence' shaped apparently a manufacturing problem - when the newer version came out - they had plenty at the goodyear factory warehouse when i went to take them back Did they look like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m8tte Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 No didn't get anything like that - didn't wear down enough before replaced - fortunately had other car to drive most of time while trying to sort problem ........ the whole car vibrating like driving down a rippled road - unstable pulling left and right spent ££££££ on balancing tracking driveshafts, hubs, bearings, disks, calipers, bushes wheels ....... Sorry think i pulled this off topic think tho good year sorted this problem out - was about 2/3 years ago ish i think just after the latest ones came out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 No didn't get anything like that - didn't wear down enough before replaced - fortunately had other car to drive most of time while trying to sort problem ........ the whole car vibrating like driving down a rippled road - unstable pulling left and right spent ££££££ on balancing tracking driveshafts, hubs, bearings, disks, calipers, bushes wheels ....... Sorry think i pulled this off topic think tho good year sorted this problem out - was about 2/3 years ago ish i think just after the latest ones came out I remember your situation well!.... As you said this is off-topic, i apologize to Flynn but we are easily distracted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m8tte Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Flynn have you done a few miles since the adjustments -its not the wear from the incorrect set up causing the pull? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted October 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2006 Hello Flynn and welcome to wim. First to put your mind at rest the Supra has the ability to handle perfectly so the shop are talking 'Pants'....Is there any difference in the wheel off-set? between stock and the replacements.The F1's are directional in tread patten and rarely tram-line so that can be dismissed. The cars front camber position is -20' and there has been no mention for the castor position, did they measure that?... As Dan says the printout will show all is it possible you can link an image to wim. Hi Tony. We have spoken on the phone before (I was going to get you to do the geometry in July but you were on holiday. ) That's exactly what I though. My Supra should be able to handle perfectly. Something is clearly wrong. AFAIK the suspension has been checked and setup up. My wheels are brand new. Shocks are fine. Springs look ok. So there's no fundamental reason why my car shouldn't be able to be improved. I shall check the direction in which the F1s are set up and make sure they are pointing the right way. And I'll also find out about the difference in tyre offsets. I'm not sure that the garage who set the car up would have a printout because he did it all by measurement. The guy builds also drift cars so in theory he should know how to set up suspension properly. In fact I actually do trust the guys who set in up. They spent a lot of time doing it (and a £100 of my money) and I truely believe that they think they have set the car up well. Perhaps it is my tyres........ that's certainly a thought. It the one thing that hasn't changed in my setup. Flynn have you done a few miles since the adjustments -its not the wear from the incorrect set up causing the pull? I've done about 300 miles since the adjustments. The tramlining and twitchyness has always been there though. Before and since my suspension geometry was set up. So you think that perhaps the incorrect adjustment has worn the tyres and that's what causing the pull? ........ the whole car vibrating like driving down a rippled road - unstable pulling left and right spent ££££££ on balancing tracking driveshafts, hubs, bearings, disks, calipers, bushes wheels ....... I get a vibration at 80mph but things are fine until then. I had planned in the next couple of weeks to get the tyres balanced again as that hasn't been checked since the new tyres were put on. But the symptoms you describe are exactly like what I get "unstable pulling left and right". What I don't what to do (and cannot do) is just throw money at the problem and hope it goes away. I'd like to understand what's wrong and fix the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted October 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2006 Did they look like this? The insides of my tyres at the front look a lot like that. I'll try and get some pictures tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted October 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2006 Hmmmmmm I had major problems with faulty eagle f1 tyres - took back to the factory to get replaced - goodyear warehouse full of faulty f1 tyres Have you got any official details of the defect with these tyres. I might try approaching Goodyear with a complaint if I can get some hard evidence that there was a manufacturing defect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 11, 2006 Report Share Posted October 11, 2006 Hmmmmmm I had major problems with faulty eagle f1 tyres - took back to the factory to get replaced - goodyear warehouse full of faulty f1 tyres Have you got any official details of the defect with these tyres. I might try approaching Goodyear with a complaint if I can get some hard evidence that there was a manufacturing defect. first we need to address the Geometry issue? then the tyre issue, but as a taster here is an example i was dealing with over the pond regarding the wear patten on directional tyres. ................................................................................ Re__Uneven_wear_causing_noise__highlights_.txt This is an email highlight paper served as my personal conclusion to the reason. Anyway are we going to act on your Geometry problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted October 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 Anyway are we going to act on your Geometry problem? How would you suggest going about sorting this out? What information do I need to get from the garage who set up the geometry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 Anyway are we going to act on your Geometry problem? How would you suggest going about sorting this out? What information do I need to get from the garage who set up the geometry? Can you post the Geometry report here? Once i can see the positions then we can work on the reason and the solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_AS Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 Flynn: have you checked the front tyre pressures? My mondeo seemed to have similar symptoms in that it was following the camber of the road more than I liked (though I would not say it ever felt dangerous or twitchy). Tony checked it and gave it the all clear as far as geometry set up. It turns out that the front tyre pressures were too low (by quite a way!) and raising them to the upper end of their allowed range has helped the problem. Tony: see you on Fri for my 2000 mile fine tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 Tony: see you on Fri for my 2000 mile fine tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted October 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Flynn: have you checked the front tyre pressures? My mondeo seemed to have similar symptoms in that it was following the camber of the road more than I liked (though I would not say it ever felt dangerous or twitchy). Tony checked it and gave it the all clear as far as geometry set up. It turns out that the front tyre pressures were too low (by quite a way!) and raising them to the upper end of their allowed range has helped the problem. Tony: see you on Fri for my 2000 mile fine tune. That's the other question I was going to ask. I don't have standard tyres or wheels and therefore I have no real idea what tyre pressures I should run. I'm pretty sure that standard is 36psi and that the garage who set up my suspension recommend about 30psi. But I really don't know what pressue to use. Can you post the Geometry report here? Once i can see the positions then we can work on the reason and the solution. I'll have a word with the garage who did the geometry and see whether he has the figures. (Gut feeling is that he wont have any figures at all) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Flynn: have you checked the front tyre pressures? My mondeo seemed to have similar symptoms in that it was following the camber of the road more than I liked (though I would not say it ever felt dangerous or twitchy). Tony checked it and gave it the all clear as far as geometry set up. It turns out that the front tyre pressures were too low (by quite a way!) and raising them to the upper end of their allowed range has helped the problem. Tony: see you on Fri for my 2000 mile fine tune. That's the other question I was going to ask. I don't have standard tyres or wheels and therefore I have no real idea what tyre pressures I should run. I'm pretty sure that standard is 36psi and that the garage who set up my suspension recommend about 30psi. But I really don't know what pressue to use. Can you post the Geometry report here? Once i can see the positions then we can work on the reason and the solution. I'll have a word with the garage who did the geometry and see whether he has the figures. (Gut feeling is that he wont have any figures at all) I think we are flying blind at the moment.... Do you feel the garage that set the Geometry has some obligation to re-measure the car since you are unhappy with the results? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m8tte Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Hmmmmmm I had major problems with faulty eagle f1 tyres - took back to the factory to get replaced - goodyear warehouse full of faulty f1 tyres Have you got any official details of the defect with these tyres. I might try approaching Goodyear with a complaint if I can get some hard evidence that there was a manufacturing defect. Don't have an 'official note' but when tyres were taken off the rims the insides of the tyres on the flat looking inside -where they are made and joined these were not flat but bulging / coming to bits - the goodyear factory took one look and raplaced them - the goodyear returns warehouse this was at ..... was full of return tyres and thay all seemed to be f1s -very obvious tread !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Hmmmmmm I had major problems with faulty eagle f1 tyres - took back to the factory to get replaced - goodyear warehouse full of faulty f1 tyres Have you got any official details of the defect with these tyres. I might try approaching Goodyear with a complaint if I can get some hard evidence that there was a manufacturing defect. Don't have an 'official note' but when tyres were taken off the rims the insides of the tyres on the flat looking inside -where they are made and joined these were not flat but bulging / coming to bits - the goodyear factory took one look and raplaced them - the goodyear returns warehouse this was at ..... was full of return tyres and thay all seemed to be f1s -very obvious tread !! Interesting and quite concerning!.... Due to customer feed-back and on-line praise the F1 has been my recommendation. I will do some research regarding the tyres failure/complaint ratio and see what comes up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m8tte Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 From my research this appeared to be a manufacturing problem for only a few weeks which was sorted swiftly - but i do know of others who had the same problem it was just after the new style gsd3' s were introduced ................feb 4th 2004 is the day i visited the goodyear factory I know loads of people who have been happy with them and not had problems - if they are ok seems not to be a problem ..but if unlucky.......... cost me ££££££ lots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 Flynn.... This situation with your car is bothering me... give me a ring at work 01923 234666 or pm me your mobile number so we can arrange a date/time to measure the car (on me cost £0) It's in our interest to resolve your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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