Steve-O Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 Hi All First of all thanks to Tony and the guys for taking a look at the 200 the other week. It turned out the front alignment was well out and needed sorting. I think the changes will save the front rubber now so its saved me money already (for now!) Brilliant setup. Will be recommending to all that value their cars setup thats for sure ! Now i have a bit of an ongoing issue. I thought the adjustment would sort a slight pull to the left. I had the caster adjusted and levelled out using my new tension rod bushes which have internal adjustment via a splined bolt. However on driving it afterwards it appears there is still a pull to the left. My next plan of action is to swap the rubber over on the front and see if the symptoms are mirrored and make the car pull to the right. Would this suggest a fault with the tyre ? The tyres are stretched ever so slightly so that might be an unknown quantity.. They are also directional so would only be a test ! Failing that what else could i look at to try and sort it. As i said - the front geo looks spot on now. The only other thing to mention is on the run up to my place i have a number of the b@stard speedhumps. Table top type with sloped side edges. Made of a hard rubber and square in shape. The type that sit in the middle of the road and have sloping edges for the tyres to run over (great). Not wide enough to go over nice and level/flat, but just wide enough to make sure i have to hit them dead on. Would that : A)cause my front alignment to get royally fecked ? I have to crawl over due to my ride height and coilovers. (On a side note i would like to ask if hitting them dead on is the best? Part of me is saying no as the car will roll over the sloped edges perhaps making the tyres/alignment do odd things ??. Part of me is saying best to move the car to one side and let one side of the car hit the hump square on and have a nice flat surface to travel over on both sides if you know what i mean?... Any ideas ? b)Make my tyres exhibit odd symptons like this ? Could the tyre somehow get damaged/comprimised (due to the odd angles of attack) by these speedhumps and make it pull to one side? Thanks all ! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 Are the tyres fairly new ? If you read through the technical areas, rear alignment is just as important (probably more) as reagrds to the car "pulling". Was the rear ok ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-O Posted September 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 Are the tyres fairly new ? If you read through the technical areas, rear alignment is just as important (probably more) as reagrds to the car "pulling". Was the rear ok ? Tyres have been on for about a year - maybe 7000-9000 miles on them. Falken 452's With regards the rear alignment side i will have to consult the printout again later on. I know tony did visually inspect the tyre wear and although he had reservations on the amount of rear camber i was running when we set it first - before he had his new unit (kipling) - it would appear the rears are wearing quite well - particularly being a rear wheel drive car. Perhaps if tony sees the thread later tonight he might be able to make a comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 Speed bumps are nothing more than a hindrance in my opinion. For them to damage the car the tyre would need to be deflected laterally with enough energy it forces the wheel to transmit damage to the chassis. Logically there is pneumatic deflection but there's also vertical compression from the coils, if we assume the bump was approached at reasonable speed then there won't be damage to the chassis. As for the pull.... move the front wheels side-to-side, i know there directional but this is just for testing, if the pull stops or goes the other way then we know the pull is pneumatic. If it's the same then i can stagger the Geometry and stop the pull that way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 Would fitting directional tryes backwards not introduce peculiar behaviour ? Not questioning WIMs work or anything, just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 Would fitting directional tryes backwards not introduce peculiar behaviour ? Not questioning WIMs work or anything, just curious. Nah, in the dry the pattern is redundant other than cooling properties so for short term testing there's no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-O Posted September 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Would fitting directional tryes backwards not introduce peculiar behaviour ? Not questioning WIMs work or anything, just curious. Nah, in the dry the pattern is redundant other than cooling properties so for short term testing there's no problem. ok well i will swap the wheels over at the weekend for a week and see how i get on I am only pottering to and from the station at most during the week so will need a bit of time to judge the effects. Watch this space ! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Would fitting directional tryes backwards not introduce peculiar behaviour ? Not questioning WIMs work or anything, just curious. Nah, in the dry the pattern is redundant other than cooling properties so for short term testing there's no problem. ok well i will swap the wheels over at the weekend for a week and see how i get on I am only pottering to and from the station at most during the week so will need a bit of time to judge the effects. Watch this space ! Steve I wouldn't suggest a week..... when i test this i know in 100yds if it's correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-O Posted October 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Hi Tony, Right i managed to finally swap the fronts over this weekend and took it for a fairly decent drive up to snetterton track for a car show... My conclusion is - i still am not entirely sure, although the symptoms appear to be reduced (less pull to the left). I need to swap back again just to be sure. I can't tell if its the road's natural camber thats pulling the car, as it can pull to the right at times. I sat on the motorway and i would find myself having to have the wheel ever so slightly turned right to correct a pull to the left. Then later it would want to pull right also. I definately think there is a pull to the left in one way or another but there might be something else going on thats making the car follow the road profile (ruts/camber) a bit too well and make it an effort to keep the car in a straight line. When we did the alignment you found that the front was well out for whatever reason (my money is on speedhumps), and adjusted everything and it looked pretty sweet. I cannot recall anything of significance being done on the rear. I am assuming as part of a normal alignment the machine would have flagged up if there were serious issues on the rear might cause such issues ? The car definately needs some more attention though in one way or another Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Well we have a few options now.... we can stagger the camber/ castor and check the toe on bump to see if there are issues there. I don't feel any issues at the rear will cause the problems you have but we will see once the car is on the rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-O Posted October 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Well we have a few options now.... we can stagger the camber/ castor and check the toe on bump to see if there are issues there. I don't feel any issues at the rear will cause the problems you have but we will see once the car is on the rig. Ok cool. Can you book me in for the 25th Oct at all to take a look ? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Well we have a few options now.... we can stagger the camber/ castor and check the toe on bump to see if there are issues there. I don't feel any issues at the rear will cause the problems you have but we will see once the car is on the rig. Ok cool. Can you book me in for the 25th Oct at all to take a look ? Steve Yep, what sort of time note (10 till 11 has gone) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-O Posted October 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Well we have a few options now.... we can stagger the camber/ castor and check the toe on bump to see if there are issues there. I don't feel any issues at the rear will cause the problems you have but we will see once the car is on the rig. Ok cool. Can you book me in for the 25th Oct at all to take a look ? Steve Yep, what sort of time note (10 till 11 has gone) Anything earlier is cool Or asap after that is good also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Well we have a few options now.... we can stagger the camber/ castor and check the toe on bump to see if there are issues there. I don't feel any issues at the rear will cause the problems you have but we will see once the car is on the rig. Ok cool. Can you book me in for the 25th Oct at all to take a look ? Steve Yep, what sort of time note (10 till 11 has gone) Anything earlier is cool Or asap after that is good also. 9am? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-O Posted October 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Well we have a few options now.... we can stagger the camber/ castor and check the toe on bump to see if there are issues there. I don't feel any issues at the rear will cause the problems you have but we will see once the car is on the rig. Ok cool. Can you book me in for the 25th Oct at all to take a look ? Steve Yep, what sort of time note (10 till 11 has gone) Anything earlier is cool Or asap after that is good also. 9am? 9am on the 25th Oct is great. See you then ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Well we have a few options now.... we can stagger the camber/ castor and check the toe on bump to see if there are issues there. I don't feel any issues at the rear will cause the problems you have but we will see once the car is on the rig. Ok cool. Can you book me in for the 25th Oct at all to take a look ? Steve Yep, what sort of time note (10 till 11 has gone) Anything earlier is cool Or asap after that is good also. 9am? 9am on the 25th Oct is great. See you then ! Booked, see you then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-O Posted October 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 Ok well its been a few days since my latest adjustment, and i think the problem has been neutralised to the best of the cars/equipment's abilities. Thanks to Mark and the gang for the help and banter/technical chat whilst waiting ! The car will now follow the roads camber quite agressively. It will pull left if to the left of the road and it will pull right if on the right of the road. So regular correction is required. I think thats the penalty for running stretched tyres on coilovers on imperfect UK roads ! So i am happy with it as it stands I'd say the turn in and deadzone is a bit better now (more to my liking). I think the camber was evened out and toe etc adjusted to compensate and that was about it. Nothing major than that other than getting the fronts balanced also - i hit a fookin great pothole (at least half a foot deep) on the way into the estate and i thought i bent the wheel to be honest. Biggest bang i ever heard. BEWARE when in the area !! My next plan of action with the 200 is to move from coilovers to KYB Agx's and Eibach springs for better fast road compliance. Also move from a stretched 235 (on 9.5 wheels) to a lesser stretched 245 tyre. Then the games start all over again i guess !! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 All reads good, thanks for the feedback.... As you may or may not know i'm not a lover of stretch tyre on a road car, the sidewall flexibility or "pneumatic slip angle" is denied making the car very road sensitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-O Posted October 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 All reads good, thanks for the feedback.... As you may or may not know i'm not a lover of stretch tyre on a road car, the sidewall flexibility or "pneumatic slip angle" is denied making the car very road sensitive. Yep i hear you loud and clear mate. It is too stretched for my liking as well but i went on the forums usual fitment - just goes to show not everyone knows what they are doing. I've learned a lot since fitting the wheels so its plain to see its not the best setup. I also worry about the tyre safety point of view - lateral loads on the side wall on a stretched tyre - an unknown quantity ? A possible risk of the tyre coming off the wheel in high grip situations even !? Will definately move up to a 245 - wont be a snug fit like the rears are but will certainly offer more slip angle which should help neutralise the road profile sensitivity. I spoke to mark about taking on the fitment job for the shocks and springs when i am ready and he seemed keen, so i'll give you a buzz when i have sourced the gear (unless you can quote me happy ? I'll do the lot through you? ) Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 The lateral loads would need to be immense to force the tyre off the rim, outside of racing i've never seen it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-O Posted October 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 The lateral loads would need to be immense to force the tyre off the rim, outside of racing i've never seen it. Well thats good to hear from someone who actually knows what they are talking about ! If i opt for a 245/45/18 over the current 235/45/18 do i need to worry about the extra width having a bearing on the sidewall height thus affecting the rolling circumference ? In which case would i need to compensate by going a sidewall size down in this instance ? Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 245-45 is not end of days but i would opt for 245-40.... the tyres aspect ratio's not the problem it's the stretch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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