Tony Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 Ignorance is bliss...So with my limited knowledge i understand that a Lambda reacts to the gasses then directs the management system to adjust the air/fuel mixture accordingly... I wonder this. Is it possible to up-grade the sensor and make it perform at a higher level, basically encouraging the management to 'power-up'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gord Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 Ignorance is bliss...So with my limited knowledge i understand that a Lambda reacts to the gasses then directs the management system to adjust the air/fuel mixture accordingly... I wonder this. Is it possible to up-grade the sensor and make it perform at a higher level, basically encouraging the management to 'power-up'? 1st dont understand what you mean power-up ? Yes sensor reacts to the gasses that pass by them, and then directs ecu to adjust air/fuel mix(to a point) the sensor can only read the gasses that pass it, and send back to ecu, both work together (with other sensors to) If on the other hand you have ecu that has been mapped and is pushing lots of air/fuel(coz its being told to) then the sensor will tell the ecu this, if the sensor is say past the cat, and have high reading it will tell the ecu then the ecu will then think cat is foooked,(lights flashing on the dash) its all down to mapping and working together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 Ignorance is bliss...So with my limited knowledge i understand that a Lambda reacts to the gasses then directs the management system to adjust the air/fuel mixture accordingly... I wonder this. Is it possible to up-grade the sensor and make it perform at a higher level, basically encouraging the management to 'power-up'? 1st dont understand what you mean power-up ? Yes sensor reacts to the gasses that pass by them, and then directs ecu to adjust air/fuel mix(to a point) the sensor can only read the gasses that pass it, and send back to ecu, both work together (with other sensors to) If on the other hand you have ecu that has been mapped and is pushing lots of air/fuel(coz its being told to) then the sensor will tell the ecu this, if the sensor is say past the cat, and have high reading it will tell the ecu then the ecu will then think cat is foooked,(lights flashing on the dash) its all down to mapping and working together 1st: 'power-up' means more power? Slooow down horsey!.... 'Yes' the sensor reacts! is there a redundant area within the ecu that a more active sensor could open to the 'full' without additional mapping?.... Often i read the management system is set in 'Grandma mode' ....Has the Lambda sensor got the ability to exploit this area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gord Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Ignorance is bliss...So with my limited knowledge i understand that a Lambda reacts to the gasses then directs the management system to adjust the air/fuel mixture accordingly... I wonder this. Is it possible to up-grade the sensor and make it perform at a higher level, basically encouraging the management to 'power-up'? 1st dont understand what you mean power-up ? Yes sensor reacts to the gasses that pass by them, and then directs ecu to adjust air/fuel mix(to a point) the sensor can only read the gasses that pass it, and send back to ecu, both work together (with other sensors to) If on the other hand you have ecu that has been mapped and is pushing lots of air/fuel(coz its being told to) then the sensor will tell the ecu this, if the sensor is say past the cat, and have high reading it will tell the ecu then the ecu will then think cat is foooked,(lights flashing on the dash) its all down to mapping and working together 1st: 'power-up' means more power? Slooow down horsey!.... 'Yes' the sensor reacts! is there a redundant area within the ecu that a more active sensor could open to the 'full' without additional mapping?.... Often i read the management system is set in 'Grandma mode' ....Has the Lambda sensor got the ability to exploit this area? Well yes i think you can get more active sensor, but i dont think it will do any good with standard ecu, as car manufactures spend lots of time (r&d) into this, running Grandma mode, helps with the life span of the car, 99% of car buyers are happy with this, it only when you start the engine mods that it becomes no good Its all down to mapping of the ecu when putting aftermarket ecu on (both working together) Having seen a very bad example last week, where a car was fitted with new ecu, injectors etc, mapping was not done right, ecu was putting shed loads of fuel into the engine (45miles to tank full of petrol) black smoke coming out of car, sensors + cat working overtime but not able to covert due to all fuel being put in, so then the ecu thinks sensors + cat are not working, putting warning lights on the dash, so by just putting a more active sensor in place would not solve this problem. Now the owner of this car was very lucky that his engine didn't pop, as some of us know what happens when you drive about with your car doing 45miles to the tank full, he has since taken the car back for the mapping to be done again 2nd time, but still putting lots of fuel into the engine, cat + sensors still working overtime, next week going back for the 3rd and final time, lets hope he gets it back running 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Ignorance is bliss...So with my limited knowledge i understand that a Lambda reacts to the gasses then directs the management system to adjust the air/fuel mixture accordingly... I wonder this. Is it possible to up-grade the sensor and make it perform at a higher level, basically encouraging the management to 'power-up'? 1st dont understand what you mean power-up ? Yes sensor reacts to the gasses that pass by them, and then directs ecu to adjust air/fuel mix(to a point) the sensor can only read the gasses that pass it, and send back to ecu, both work together (with other sensors to) If on the other hand you have ecu that has been mapped and is pushing lots of air/fuel(coz its being told to) then the sensor will tell the ecu this, if the sensor is say past the cat, and have high reading it will tell the ecu then the ecu will then think cat is foooked,(lights flashing on the dash) its all down to mapping and working together 1st: 'power-up' means more power? Slooow down horsey!.... 'Yes' the sensor reacts! is there a redundant area within the ecu that a more active sensor could open to the 'full' without additional mapping?.... Often i read the management system is set in 'Grandma mode' ....Has the Lambda sensor got the ability to exploit this area? Well yes i think you can get more active sensor, but i dont think it will do any good with standard ecu, as car manufactures spend lots of time (r&d) into this, running Grandma mode, helps with the life span of the car, 99% of car buyers are happy with this, it only when you start the engine mods that it becomes no good Its all down to mapping of the ecu when putting aftermarket ecu on (both working together) Having seen a very bad example last week, where a car was fitted with new ecu, injectors etc, mapping was not done right, ecu was putting shed loads of fuel into the engine (45miles to tank full of petrol) black smoke coming out of car, sensors + cat working overtime but not able to covert due to all fuel being put in, so then the ecu thinks sensors + cat are not working, putting warning lights on the dash, so by just putting a more active sensor in place would not solve this problem. Now the owner of this car was very lucky that his engine didn't pop, as some of us know what happens when you drive about with your car doing 45miles to the tank full, he has since taken the car back for the mapping to be done again 2nd time, but still putting lots of fuel into the engine, cat + sensors still working overtime, next week going back for the 3rd and final time, lets hope he gets it back running 100% You read very wise in this area.... do you mind if i ask what is your pedigree (job) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gord Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Ignorance is bliss...So with my limited knowledge i understand that a Lambda reacts to the gasses then directs the management system to adjust the air/fuel mixture accordingly... I wonder this. Is it possible to up-grade the sensor and make it perform at a higher level, basically encouraging the management to 'power-up'? 1st dont understand what you mean power-up ? Yes sensor reacts to the gasses that pass by them, and then directs ecu to adjust air/fuel mix(to a point) the sensor can only read the gasses that pass it, and send back to ecu, both work together (with other sensors to) If on the other hand you have ecu that has been mapped and is pushing lots of air/fuel(coz its being told to) then the sensor will tell the ecu this, if the sensor is say past the cat, and have high reading it will tell the ecu then the ecu will then think cat is foooked,(lights flashing on the dash) its all down to mapping and working together 1st: 'power-up' means more power? Slooow down horsey!.... 'Yes' the sensor reacts! is there a redundant area within the ecu that a more active sensor could open to the 'full' without additional mapping?.... Often i read the management system is set in 'Grandma mode' ....Has the Lambda sensor got the ability to exploit this area? Well yes i think you can get more active sensor, but i dont think it will do any good with standard ecu, as car manufactures spend lots of time (r&d) into this, running Grandma mode, helps with the life span of the car, 99% of car buyers are happy with this, it only when you start the engine mods that it becomes no good Its all down to mapping of the ecu when putting aftermarket ecu on (both working together) Having seen a very bad example last week, where a car was fitted with new ecu, injectors etc, mapping was not done right, ecu was putting shed loads of fuel into the engine (45miles to tank full of petrol) black smoke coming out of car, sensors + cat working overtime but not able to covert due to all fuel being put in, so then the ecu thinks sensors + cat are not working, putting warning lights on the dash, so by just putting a more active sensor in place would not solve this problem. Now the owner of this car was very lucky that his engine didn't pop, as some of us know what happens when you drive about with your car doing 45miles to the tank full, he has since taken the car back for the mapping to be done again 2nd time, but still putting lots of fuel into the engine, cat + sensors still working overtime, next week going back for the 3rd and final time, lets hope he gets it back running 100% You read very wise in this area.... do you mind if i ask what is your pedigree (job) Yes tony when i left school, started at local firm mechanical engineering, was doing this for over 15yrs, now i work in a brewery along similar line Been messing about with bikes/cars from my teens i have been very lucky as my best mate has a garage(MOT station) for me to do this. 1 of my 1st mods on my GSX250 was to weld scaffolding poles for the exhaust very load, but lost all power 1st lesson learnt, and it has gone on from this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Quote:Gord Your posts read well educated i admire your routs, hands on, learn by your mistakes the best method in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gord Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Quote:Gord Your posts read well educated i admire your routs, hands on, learn by your mistakes the best method in my opinion. Thank you Tony I lost count of the number for times, that i changed the jet's and needle in the carb on that GSX250 Got it right in the end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Quote:Gord Your posts read well educated i admire your routs, hands on, learn by your mistakes the best method in my opinion. Thank you Tony I lost count of the number for times, that i changed the jet's and needle in the carb on that GSX250 Got it right in the end For the record i had a GSX250E the six speed import lovely bike until i was rammed into a brick wall by some twat pulling out of a line of traffic.... 50mph to 0 in a nano secound really knocks the snot out of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDIPLC Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 The lambda sensor monitors the exhaust gases to analyse the air/fuel ratio under closed loop conditions so that the ecu can make self corrections to ensure that the optimal stoichioemetric conditions of 14.7:1 are maintained. The closed loop cylces are normally the conditions less than 80% full throttle, where A/F of 14.7:1 is generally optimal for economy and drivability. The open look cycles are normally 80% to 100% throttle opening, at which point a richer A/F ratio is required for optimal performance, and is the main area concentrated on for performance considerations. The level of effectiveness of the lambda control varies according to the sophostication of the ECU. Generally speaking, cars up to around 1998 are considerably easier to manipulate the whole of calibration tables, whereas the later the car is the harder it is to manipulate the closed loop cycles. Hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 The lambda sensor monitors the exhaust gases to analyse the air/fuel ratio under closed loop conditions so that the ecu can make self corrections to ensure that the optimal stoichioemetric conditions of 14.7:1 are maintained. The closed loop cylces are normally the conditions less than 80% full throttle, where A/F of 14.7:1 is generally optimal for economy and drivability. The open look cycles are normally 80% to 100% throttle opening, at which point a richer A/F ratio is required for optimal performance, and is the main area concentrated on for performance considerations. The level of effectiveness of the lambda control varies according to the sophostication of the ECU. Generally speaking, cars up to around 1998 are considerably easier to manipulate the whole of calibration tables, whereas the later the car is the harder it is to manipulate the closed loop cycles. Hope this helps Everything helps in the wim catalogue.... Ever curious i wonder this. Temperature bothers me... the fuel/air mixture set for performance, as i understand would be rich with a very hot combustion, would this encouraged debris in the catalyst? if yes then is there a need to introduce a sports catalyst In reply your choices are (1) Answer to follow (2) Shut up Tony and stick with Geometry Note:- Your number 2 button has been disabled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDIPLC Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 The lambda sensor monitors the exhaust gases to analyse the air/fuel ratio under closed loop conditions so that the ecu can make self corrections to ensure that the optimal stoichioemetric conditions of 14.7:1 are maintained. The closed loop cylces are normally the conditions less than 80% full throttle, where A/F of 14.7:1 is generally optimal for economy and drivability. The open look cycles are normally 80% to 100% throttle opening, at which point a richer A/F ratio is required for optimal performance, and is the main area concentrated on for performance considerations. The level of effectiveness of the lambda control varies according to the sophostication of the ECU. Generally speaking, cars up to around 1998 are considerably easier to manipulate the whole of calibration tables, whereas the later the car is the harder it is to manipulate the closed loop cycles. Hope this helps Everything helps in the wim catalogue.... Ever curious i wonder this. Temperature bothers me... the fuel/air mixture set for performance, as i understand would be rich with a very hot combustion, would this encouraged debris in the catalyst? if yes then is there a need to introduce a sports catalyst In reply your choices are (1) Answer to follow (2) Shut up Tony and stick with Geometry Note:- Your number 2 button has been disabled Most of the vehicle manufacturers set the air/fuel ration far too rich under open loop conditions to cool the catalytic converter. This is bad for the environment, economy, performance and engine life so we try and correct this by recibrating the ecu. The downside is shortened cat life expectancy. Most high performance cars have metal cats as standard nowadys, but it is often possible to use a cat with a lower cell density to aid exhaust flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 The lambda sensor monitors the exhaust gases to analyse the air/fuel ratio under closed loop conditions so that the ecu can make self corrections to ensure that the optimal stoichioemetric conditions of 14.7:1 are maintained. The closed loop cylces are normally the conditions less than 80% full throttle, where A/F of 14.7:1 is generally optimal for economy and drivability. The open look cycles are normally 80% to 100% throttle opening, at which point a richer A/F ratio is required for optimal performance, and is the main area concentrated on for performance considerations. The level of effectiveness of the lambda control varies according to the sophostication of the ECU. Generally speaking, cars up to around 1998 are considerably easier to manipulate the whole of calibration tables, whereas the later the car is the harder it is to manipulate the closed loop cycles. Hope this helps Everything helps in the wim catalogue.... Ever curious i wonder this. Temperature bothers me... the fuel/air mixture set for performance, as i understand would be rich with a very hot combustion, would this encouraged debris in the catalyst? if yes then is there a need to introduce a sports catalyst In reply your choices are (1) Answer to follow (2) Shut up Tony and stick with Geometry Note:- Your number 2 button has been disabled Most of the vehicle manufacturers set the air/fuel ration far too rich under open loop conditions to cool the catalytic converter. This is bad for the environment, economy, performance and engine life so we try and correct this by recibrating the ecu. The downside is shortened cat life expectancy. Most high performance cars have metal cats as standard nowadys, but it is often possible to use a cat with a lower cell density to aid exhaust flow. Wow so i was kind of right then.... You are teaching me very well tidplc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gord Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 Ignorance is bliss...So with my limited knowledge i understand that a Lambda reacts to the gasses then directs the management system to adjust the air/fuel mixture accordingly... I wonder this. Is it possible to up-grade the sensor and make it perform at a higher level, basically encouraging the management to 'power-up'? 1st dont understand what you mean power-up ? Yes sensor reacts to the gasses that pass by them, and then directs ecu to adjust air/fuel mix(to a point) the sensor can only read the gasses that pass it, and send back to ecu, both work together (with other sensors to) If on the other hand you have ecu that has been mapped and is pushing lots of air/fuel(coz its being told to) then the sensor will tell the ecu this, if the sensor is say past the cat, and have high reading it will tell the ecu then the ecu will then think cat is foooked,(lights flashing on the dash) its all down to mapping and working together 1st: 'power-up' means more power? Slooow down horsey!.... 'Yes' the sensor reacts! is there a redundant area within the ecu that a more active sensor could open to the 'full' without additional mapping?.... Often i read the management system is set in 'Grandma mode' ....Has the Lambda sensor got the ability to exploit this area? Well yes i think you can get more active sensor, but i dont think it will do any good with standard ecu, as car manufactures spend lots of time (r&d) into this, running Grandma mode, helps with the life span of the car, 99% of car buyers are happy with this, it only when you start the engine mods that it becomes no good Its all down to mapping of the ecu when putting aftermarket ecu on (both working together) Having seen a very bad example last week, where a car was fitted with new ecu, injectors etc, mapping was not done right, ecu was putting shed loads of fuel into the engine (45miles to tank full of petrol) black smoke coming out of car, sensors + cat working overtime but not able to covert due to all fuel being put in, so then the ecu thinks sensors + cat are not working, putting warning lights on the dash, so by just putting a more active sensor in place would not solve this problem. Now the owner of this car was very lucky that his engine didn't pop, as some of us know what happens when you drive about with your car doing 45miles to the tank full, he has since taken the car back for the mapping to be done again 2nd time, but still putting lots of fuel into the engine, cat + sensors still working overtime, next week going back for the 3rd and final time, lets hope he gets it back running 100% Well the owner of the car got the car back monday, and yet still not running right, car takes 5-10 just to start, not running/pulling, till over 50mph The garage has had over a week to get this car running right, and still not right All the mods that was put onto the car was recommended by the garage, so it was not just a case of the owner telling the garage what to do. He is now going to ask the garage for his money back, and all the mods taken off the car What do you think of his chances of getting his money back ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDIPLC Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 Well the owner of the car got the car back monday, and yet still not running right, car takes 5-10 just to start, not running/pulling, till over 50mph The garage has had over a week to get this car running right, and still not right All the mods that was put onto the car was recommended by the garage, so it was not just a case of the owner telling the garage what to do. He is now going to ask the garage for his money back, and all the mods taken off the car What do you think of his chances of getting his money back ???? Gord, I don't think it's polite to bring your ignorance and prejudices into Tony's house. This issue has been dealt with in LOC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 Gord wim and it's members are innocent of any disputes argued in another forum. It is unfair to example highlights here since all parties share splintered information and i cannot support that. If there is a dispute and if it is seemingly public please can you direct solution there. Issues that evolve directly through the wim forum by relationship in any format i will publicly deal with and arbitrate to the bitter end...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gord Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Gord wim and it's members are innocent of any disputes argued in another forum. It is unfair to example highlights here since all parties share splintered information and i cannot support that. If there is a dispute and if it is seemingly public please can you direct solution there. Issues that evolve directly through the wim forum by relationship in any format i will publicly deal with and arbitrate to the bitter end...... Tony you asked about the sensors, i only told you what I HAVE SEEN/KNOW, over the past few weeks. Mark has been good in sorting this problem out, for the owner of the car. Mark, im not ignorant or prejudice to you or TDI, we both know what went on with this car, both steve and myself are looking forward to talking to you about this. I now see the connection between youself and Mark (from your post on sunday) As said on LOC Mark/TDI is/looks like its trying to change its image from the past, this can only be good for it customers and yourself. Good luck to you both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDIPLC Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Mark, im not ignorant or prejudice to you or TDI, we both know what went on with this car, both steve and myself are looking forward to talking to you about this. Good luck to you both. Gord, that is certainly not the impression that you portray. Thank you for your kind wishes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Gord wim and it's members are innocent of any disputes argued in another forum. It is unfair to example highlights here since all parties share splintered information and i cannot support that. If there is a dispute and if it is seemingly public please can you direct solution there. Issues that evolve directly through the wim forum by relationship in any format i will publicly deal with and arbitrate to the bitter end...... Tony you asked about the sensors, i only told you what I HAVE SEEN/KNOW, over the past few weeks. Mark has been good in sorting this problem out, for the owner of the car. Mark, im not ignorant or prejudice to you or TDI, we both know what went on with this car, both steve and myself are looking forward to talking to you about this. I now see the connection between youself and Mark (from your post on sunday) As said on LOC Mark/TDI is/looks like its trying to change its image from the past, this can only be good for it customers and yourself. Good luck to you both. wim has an undisputed reputation in all manner of forums earned by recommendation, my association with tdiplc is to expand..... 'explode' this reputation by combining recommended provenance.... so says the customer. The complexities involved within mechanical engineering must occasionally invite.... lets say disputes, as far as i am concerned within this area it's inevitable..... To date wim has witnessed exemplary customer care by tdiplc hence my open desire to become associated the wim way..... and we all know when needed i will cut any company down whoever they are if proven to be negligent! Unless i have said something that offends and you feel the desire to reply... Let's let this current thread end! Then continue in the actual thread since i feel i was going rather well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanF Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 I'm going to ignore the wide-band lambdas .My car's ecu, like many, would make no use of the extra information about the exhaust gas composition. The difference between wide band and standard isn't that great anyway. Last time I looked at the data sheets that is. Normal lambdas are 'simple' switching devices. They tell if the exhaust is too rich or too lean. If just the right amount of air is mixed with the fuel and burnt then it is theoretically possible for all the exhaust gasses to consist of just C02 and water. In practice the combustion is incomplete so cats are added to perform the final burn and keep the exhaust gasses clean. Too much fuel in the exhaust is bad for the cats and too much air is wastefull as air takes energy to push through the engine. The ecu uses the lambda sensor primarily to ensure that the mixture going into the cats can be completely burnt. Its an emmisions control device. The 14.7:1 stoichometric point is neither the best for power (slightly rich) nor best for fuel economy (slightly lean) but it is best for the cats. Cats penalise fuel economy, and though they clean the exhaust gasses, ultimately the Carbon load is increased by their presence. Lambdas do wear out: when they do the switching response time slows down. The ecu gets confused as it doesn't know the lambda is slow and emmisions and drivability suffer. A simple test for an ageing lambda is to hold the car at 2000 rpm in neutral. Keep your foot absolutely still and the engine revs should be similarly stable. if they hunt up and down slowly then its time for a new lambda sensor. So is there any point in changing a working lambda sensor for a more expensive wide band one? I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDIPLC Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 I'm going to ignore the wide-band lambdas .My car's ecu, like many, would make no use of the extra information about the exhaust gas composition. The difference between wide band and standard isn't that great anyway. Last time I looked at the data sheets that is. Normal lambdas are 'simple' switching devices. They tell if the exhaust is too rich or too lean. If just the right amount of air is mixed with the fuel and burnt then it is theoretically possible for all the exhaust gasses to consist of just C02 and water. In practice the combustion is incomplete so cats are added to perform the final burn and keep the exhaust gasses clean. Too much fuel in the exhaust is bad for the cats and too much air is wastefull as air takes energy to push through the engine. The ecu uses the lambda sensor primarily to ensure that the mixture going into the cats can be completely burnt. Its an emmisions control device. The 14.7:1 stoichometric point is neither the best for power (slightly rich) nor best for fuel economy (slightly lean) but it is best for the cats. Cats penalise fuel economy, and though they clean the exhaust gasses, ultimately the Carbon load is increased by their presence. Lambdas do wear out: when they do the switching response time slows down. The ecu gets confused as it doesn't know the lambda is slow and emmisions and drivability suffer. A simple test for an ageing lambda is to hold the car at 2000 rpm in neutral. Keep your foot absolutely still and the engine revs should be similarly stable. if they hunt up and down slowly then its time for a new lambda sensor. So is there any point in changing a working lambda sensor for a more expensive wide band one? I doubt it. Hi IanF, Wide band lambda's are primarily used as tool for ecu calibration, with or without a catalytic converter, then removed from the vehicle. The narrow band lambda's as commonly used by most vehicle manufacturers as feedback for the closed loop driving cylce (less that 80% throttle opening). Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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