lancslad Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 I am in need of some urgent assistance and advice please and have almost run out of options. My wife is a driving instructor and 12 months ago bought a Nissan Note 1.5tdci. 19000 miles later the front tyres were worn to about 2.5mm and changed. At the same time I also paid a bit more attention than usual to the wear on the rear tyres. At this point it was evident there was a problem. The rear nearside tyre had worn to approx 2.5mm on its outer edge and only 4.5mm on its inner edge. The offside tyre was worn to approx 3.5mm on its outer edge and 5.5mm on its inner edge. I presented the car to my local dealer where the service manager instantly gave his opinion that there was nothing untoward and it was nothing to worry about After a protracted conversation I left the garage in Sheffield and personally arranged a full 4 wheel alignment check at Drury Lane in Oldham. The results show that the toe in figures are out of the manufacturers settings. The manufacturers tolerances are 0 degrees to -19'. The actual readings are rear n/s -23' rear o/s -24'. Unfortunately the axle is fixed and there is no adjustment on the rear toe. So it is now back to Nissan dealership and the same service manager deems that the settings are so close to the tolerances that it is of no consequence but as a favour to me he will contact Nissan Technical. Nissan technical have now replied to the effect that they have no issues with the rear settings of the E11 (Note) axle and there is no further action. It does appear that the service manager may have neglected to inform Nissan of the alignment readings but Nissan will not accept the readings from me I have changed one of the rear tyres (but retained the casing myself) a Continental econtact 3 but am wanting advice on the best way forward as I appear to have reached a dead end. Before I start any further action I need to know whether the current readings are so substantially wrong that I should demand that they be corrected. I also need to know the best way to go about taking this matter forward in order to reach a satisfactory conclusion. I do have the option of taking the car to another dealer for a second opinion but need to be on absolutely solid ground before I present my case to them so that I can "fight my corner" if they attempt to try and pull the wool over my eyes. Thanks in advance for any assistance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 The wear pattern and the measured data from Drury don't correlate.... I will pull the data from the Hunter tomorrow and post back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancslad Posted April 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 The wear pattern and the measured data from Drury don't correlate.... I will pull the data from the Hunter tomorrow and post back. Final alignment settings. I'd just got in from work when I posted and couldn't find them. Thanks for looking Tony Obviously my error as the toe angles are positive not negative like I posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 The toe error is small but consistent with your complaint. Here are my thoughts. 1: If only one wheel was displaced then you could be held accountable by hitting a curb/pothole.... 2: If one wheel was positive and the other negative (displaced beam) then you again could be accountable. 3: Since both wheels are incorrect in the same direction (positive) then i would hold Nissan accountable by manufacturing error. 4: If the toe were adjustable i would adjust it to the OEM positions then monitor the tyre wear, if wear appears then i would generate custom settings for the toe. I feel 19' each side is to deep for a fixed beam. 5: The toe can be corrected by fitting aftermarket correction shims, but it's not cheap. To add grounds for your complaint i would join the Nissan/Note owners club and ask members if they also have issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancslad Posted April 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 The toe error is small but consistent with your complaint. Here are my thoughts. 1: If only one wheel was displaced then you could be held accountable by hitting a curb/pothole.... 2: If one wheel was positive and the other negative (displaced beam) then you again could be accountable. 3: Since both wheels are incorrect in the same direction (positive) then i would hold Nissan accountable by manufacturing error. 4: If the toe were adjustable i would adjust it to the OEM positions then monitor the tyre wear, if wear appears then i would generate custom settings for the toe. I feel 19' each side is to deep for a fixed beam. 5: The toe can be corrected by fitting aftermarket correction shims, but it's not cheap. To add grounds for your complaint i would join the Nissan/Note owners club and ask members if they also have issues. Thanks for that Tony much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancslad Posted June 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Hi Tony thanks for your earlier assistance. I am still having a bit of a nightmare with Nissan Customer (dis)service and eventually turned to What Car magazine for help. I sent them the details of the alignment above and they have replied with the following Our technical guys have looked at the measurements supplied and have said the vehicle is actually within Nissan specification. The combined rear toe specification for a Nissan NOTE is 5mm – 13mm, as stated in the service manual. The figures given are confusing as they are in Degrees minutes not mm but once the combined rear toe of 0 degrees 46 minutes is converted to mm the result is approximately 5.3mm The tecnical guys are obviously stating the alignment is actually within tolerances after they convert the readings to mm. This then questions the fact that the correct readings have been used in the Hunter in the first place or is it the case that when the original settings of 5mm is converted it actually converts differently from mm to degrees and then back again (does that make sense?). Again your help is much appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Personally i think the toe positions are wrong and need to be revised by Nissan. If you join one of the clubs and ask members if they also have this issue a collective "yes" will force your argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancslad Posted June 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Personally i think the toe positions are wrong and need to be revised by Nissan. Probably so, especially as I'm aware that there were a number of similar issues with the Micra that was blamed on tyres at the time. (Didn't find this out until after I discovered the Notes problems) If you join one of the clubs and ask members if they also have this issue a collective "yes" will force your argument. I have subscribed to a number of online Nissan sites and to be fair am totally underwhelmed by the lack of responses Looks like I'll just have to put up with what we've been dealt and just make sure I never ever buy another Nissan ever again. Good job I have my MX5 to vent my frustration on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Personally i think the toe positions are wrong and need to be revised by Nissan. Probably so, especially as I'm aware that there were a number of similar issues with the Micra that was blamed on tyres at the time. (Didn't find this out until after I discovered the Notes problems) If you join one of the clubs and ask members if they also have this issue a collective "yes" will force your argument. I have subscribed to a number of online Nissan sites and to be fair am totally underwhelmed by the lack of responses Looks like I'll just have to put up with what we've been dealt and just make sure I never ever buy another Nissan ever again. Good job I have my MX5 to vent my frustration on Not everyone is as passionate as you regarding the wear..... I also find the cheaper the tyre, the less concerned members are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancslad Posted June 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Not everyone is as passionate as you regarding the wear..... I also find the cheaper the tyre, the less concerned members are? I'm just a Lancastrian tightarse that doesn't like parting with money sooner than necessary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Not everyone is as passionate as you regarding the wear..... I also find the cheaper the tyre, the less concerned members are? I'm just a Lancastrian tightarse that doesn't like parting with money sooner than necessary I admire your principles.... Shame the rest of the nation are not so well tuned in the attitude department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avhation Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 I have very similar rear toe-out mearurements (25' and 20' toe out) to lancslad, resulting in uneven and fast tyre wear (average 13000 per pair in 40000 miles) and a poor ride over sunken manholes even on a straight road. I have calculated that shimming the rear hubs on my car using 0.135mm feelers would bring the wheel rims within the limit of toe-in specified. I think What Car? may have missed the point that you had toe-out, whereas the spec was for toe-in. Did you manage to resolve your problem? Regards Henry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 The OP hasn't been on the forum for 2 years so I doubt you will get an answer from them but Tony will be able to help you out. Welcome to WIM as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 Toe out is a bit urgent!!..... If they are both doing it then it must be a build issue. Have you spoken to Nissan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avhation Posted June 10, 2013 Report Share Posted June 10, 2013 Hi Tony, Thanks for your interest, and no I have not tried Nissan. I bought the 2007 car in 2008 so cannot be sure of its early history except that it is HPI clear. The tracked was measured in 2009 with the result posted above. Believing that the rear was not adjustable and that therefore beam replacement was the extreme and costly fix I decided to put up with it. Now that I know a bit more I am inclined to try shimmimg - not the best practice and unlikely to be condoned by Nissan I suggest. I have tried a few times to add the alignment chart but I think the file may be too big. I'll try again as a seperate ost. Regards, Henry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 10, 2013 Report Share Posted June 10, 2013 The only problems with shims is if it has calipers you may need to shim the carriers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avhation Posted June 10, 2013 Report Share Posted June 10, 2013 Below is the alignment chart: http://F:\Dad's\Car\Nissan Note\rear tracking1 Or maybe not? Henry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted June 10, 2013 Report Share Posted June 10, 2013 Try uploading it to here and then linking the image - http://tinypic.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avhation Posted June 10, 2013 Report Share Posted June 10, 2013 http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=18nfch&s=5 Fingers crossed! Henry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avhation Posted June 10, 2013 Report Share Posted June 10, 2013 The Note has drums on the rear so that's good! I plan to insert feeler gauges as shims, notched with a V to line up with the hub bolts, plus plenty of locite on the bolts. Henry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 10, 2013 Report Share Posted June 10, 2013 Reads like a plan....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avhation Posted June 10, 2013 Report Share Posted June 10, 2013 No chance to follow through for 3 weeks, but I'll post when I've done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 Nice one...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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