Tony Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 A Nissan SX200 S13 fully kitted and chassis adjustable. This car has rear camber adjusters, rear toe adjusters and an adjustable rear trailing arm. I assume the trailing arm is to adjust the Kinematic toe? is this to compensate for the pitch of the drive train/diff? if not then why not just assume some 'pull-downs' and work from the toe adjuster Any help on this topic is appreciated.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDIPLC Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 Sam is in St Lucia for a couple of weeks (must remember that at the next pay review :graduated: ) Sadly he's been captured by the enemy and will be getting married to the loveley Anna on Thursday. Being totally commited to WIM I am sure he would be on here like a shot, but I don't think he has internet access while there - sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted May 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 Best wishes to Sam and Anna for their commitments together in marriage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted May 2, 2007 Report Share Posted May 2, 2007 That's the last we see of him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam@TDi Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 It's Sam and Anna's big day today. I received a text from him yesterday - apparantly the resort in St Lucia is phenominal, so I think it'll be a great day today for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted May 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 Jon i hope so for a little while. Sam's current commitment is much more important than us. I wish them both the best of futures together. And i think marriage with add immeasurable strength to Sam's already prominent statue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam@TDi Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 A Nissan SX200 S13 fully kitted and chassis adjustable. This car has rear camber adjusters, rear toe adjusters and an adjustable rear trailing arm. I assume the trailing arm is to adjust the Kinematic toe? is this to compensate for the pitch of the drive train/diff? if not then why not just assume some 'pull-downs' and work from the toe adjuster Any help on this topic is appreciated.... I agree that does sound like over kill, the only possible reason I can think of right now is that by adjusting both trailing arm and toe adjuster together you could totally mis-align the wheel hub, perhaps some drifting guru did it once and everyone else just copied, but sounds like a can of worms to me unless it's backed up by hours of track time. The most effective way to adjust the anti-squat property's on these is to shim either the front or the rear of the main rear sub-frame (depending on what your trying to stop or promote) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted May 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 A Nissan SX200 S13 fully kitted and chassis adjustable. This car has rear camber adjusters, rear toe adjusters and an adjustable rear trailing arm. I assume the trailing arm is to adjust the Kinematic toe? is this to compensate for the pitch of the drive train/diff? if not then why not just assume some 'pull-downs' and work from the toe adjuster Any help on this topic is appreciated.... I agree that does sound like over kill, the only possible reason I can think of right now is that by adjusting both trailing arm and toe adjuster together you could totally mis-align the wheel hub, perhaps some drifting guru did it once and everyone else just copied, but sounds like a can of worms to me unless it's backed up by hours of track time. The most effective way to adjust the anti-squat property's on these is to shim either the front or the rear of the main rear sub-frame (depending on what your trying to stop or promote) You hit the nail on the head since this package is for drift. Troubles me though since kinematics is dynamic so how the hell do to measure this static?... I mean i can do some kinematic camber measurements and some bump tendencies but i am dammed if i can simulate kinematic rear toe.... (shrug) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 A Nissan SX200 S13 fully kitted and chassis adjustable. This car has rear camber adjusters, rear toe adjusters and an adjustable rear trailing arm. I assume the trailing arm is to adjust the Kinematic toe? is this to compensate for the pitch of the drive train/diff? if not then why not just assume some 'pull-downs' and work from the toe adjuster Any help on this topic is appreciated.... I agree that does sound like over kill, the only possible reason I can think of right now is that by adjusting both trailing arm and toe adjuster together you could totally mis-align the wheel hub, perhaps some drifting guru did it once and everyone else just copied, but sounds like a can of worms to me unless it's backed up by hours of track time. The most effective way to adjust the anti-squat property's on these is to shim either the front or the rear of the main rear sub-frame (depending on what your trying to stop or promote) You hit the nail on the head since this package is for drift. Troubles me though since kinematics is dynamic so how the hell do to measure this static?... I mean i can do some kinematic camber measurements and some bump tendencies but i am dammed if i can simulate kinematic rear toe.... (shrug) .......................... So are we saying the corrections are random and subject to testing... Why have the opportunity to adjust the squat if it's not live? Is the tendency simply not measurable static. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam@TDi Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 It's not totally arbitrary but the problem is that squat and dive and the adjustments there-of cross over the blurred boundary between chassis dynamics and geometry. For instance, in some situations it may be preferable to limit the amount of "squat" during acceleration in order to stop the geometry changing undesirably and limiting available traction... in the same breath limiting the squat will also have a direct effect on the cars dynamic weight distribution during acceleration, so in this respect limiting the squat may cause a lack of weight transfer which could again limit traction during acceleration and totally counter act the gain from the geo side. Whether the gains from the geo side out weigh the losses from the chassis dynamic side (or visa versa) is something that would need to be quantified either by accurate track testing and data logging or alternatively inside a good computer suspension dynamics simulation program. Most people simply make a moderate adjustment and then drive, this method is only as accurate as the drivers feed back... simple as that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 It's not totally arbitrary but the problem is that squat and dive and the adjustments there-of cross over the blurred boundary between chassis dynamics and geometry. For instance, in some situations it may be preferable to limit the amount of "squat" during acceleration in order to stop the geometry changing undesirably and limiting available traction... in the same breath limiting the squat will also have a direct effect on the cars dynamic weight distribution during acceleration, so in this respect limiting the squat may cause a lack of weight transfer which could again limit traction during acceleration and totally counter act the gain from the geo side. Whether the gains from the geo side out weigh the losses from the chassis dynamic side (or visa versa) is something that would need to be quantified either by accurate track testing and data logging or alternatively inside a good computer suspension dynamics simulation program. Most people simply make a moderate adjustment and then drive, this method is only as accurate as the drivers feed back... simple as that I am with you.... I assume the Arago can determine rear set-back? So a 0 transverse drive train set-back would be a wise starting position.... "subject to testing" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam@TDi Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Well yes, it tells you the exact wheel base on each side of the car and from corner to corner... so instantly shows up any difference in front to rear track width or stagger across either front or rear axle. If we know what the cars original wheel base should be we can return it to there and start again. For what it's worth the vehicle data base which snap-on supply on the Arago is unbeleiveable, I doubt we'll be caught out for factory specs too often Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Well yes, it tells you the exact wheel base on each side of the car and from corner to corner... so instantly shows up any difference in front to rear track width or stagger across either front or rear axle. If we know what the cars original wheel base should be we can return it to there and start again. My thoughts exactly but.... If the castor has any disparity or there is any front member set-back then the maths gets real complicated. The Arago's data file should have the wheel base listed but i don't think it actually measures it live. I am looking forward to seeing this beast in the flesh... I was wondering if a visit next Friday would suit you and the team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam@TDi Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 It measures EVERYTHING live, including the chassis frame check This friday i'm here but next friday i'll be on my way to the Nurbergring for the weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 It measures EVERYTHING live, including the chassis frame check This friday i'm here but next friday i'll be on my way to the Nurbergring for the weekend I'm booked this friday.... And the next is the only time Mark@wim and myself can make it... As long as someone can give us a brief overview we will figure the rest ourselves.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam@TDi Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Ok no problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.I.T Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 A Nissan SX200 S13 fully kitted and chassis adjustable. This car has rear camber adjusters, rear toe adjusters and an adjustable rear trailing arm. I assume the trailing arm is to adjust the Kinematic toe? is this to compensate for the pitch of the drive train/diff? if not then why not just assume some 'pull-downs' and work from the toe adjuster Any help on this topic is appreciated.... what is the car be set up for? eg track racing, driftting?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 A Nissan SX200 S13 fully kitted and chassis adjustable. This car has rear camber adjusters, rear toe adjusters and an adjustable rear trailing arm. I assume the trailing arm is to adjust the Kinematic toe? is this to compensate for the pitch of the drive train/diff? if not then why not just assume some 'pull-downs' and work from the toe adjuster Any help on this topic is appreciated.... what is the car be set up for? eg track racing, driftting?? The set-up was for Drift.... The owner had his own positions which were very conservative since the car was also his daily drive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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