Tony

Indeed...... Toe is lateral and would act like a pencil rubber dismissing all the camber calculations... If we could guarantee a zero toe % during the camber/castor curve then the tyre temperature scale could be an asset, even though only for that one particular modified car..... In truth if the likes of F1-Nascar-Indy car with the millions of pounds invested can lose a race because of half a PSI, what real chance have we got trying to develop an edge by measuring tyre temperature.... I feel an intelligent educated guess and driver feedback owns the plinth.

That works well for me, it displays logic..... Now add +20' of front toe, say to the negative camber readings only, to keep things simple.

Interesting.... never used a temp gauge... Although i have been asked about them..... Most recently as a method to access track day tyre pressure, in truth i couldn't fully answer the owners questions.... This is why? The car is a very heavy RWD running 245mm front tyres..... -1 deg 30' front camber, +6 deg Castor and +20' total toe..... His question was how to ascertain the best tyre pressure by measuring tyre temp for track days. Remember if the pressure is to high the car will over-steer, to low under-steer both via the tyres slip angle, additional consideration is the pressure would influence rolling resistance adding of subtracting the toe position dynamically...... oh and also the car is fully fitted with Poly-bushes..... Taking all this into consideration i personally can see Little benefit measuring tyre temperature since the conclusion opens to many variables. Let me add another.... For testing surely the track would need equal left/right bends with equal radii, if not then the results could only be concluded from one tyre.... but which one?..... Logic suggests the only way to test the tyre temperature is on a 1/4 mile done a few times....

For the Toyos STS go through a third party and in truth i feel we are to expensive!... i wouldn't do that to you.

What sizes and type of tyres do you need Mat...

Personally i agree with Dan.... Avon are great for lip stick but s**t for road grip.

Expanded today.... if i can find a source for expendable rubber for track days what would you pay for the privilege. As i see things the tyre shop in effect only loans the existing tyres too their absolute limit of expendable wear... Race days...... But the shop will enevitably want reward..... What's a reasonable cost? (supply/disposal only) Dan! this has been discussed between Mark and myself...... Go poke a stick or two.

Hmm, strange I must have missed that when I was doing it ............ consider it done boss ! Opppps did i forget to mention this development ..... Sorry Ahmet! In typical wim format this idea opens a third dimension... 'Buy'.... 'Sell'....'Swap'.... Remember team wim, all three carry a beneficial trademark 1: If you sell you gain 2: If you buy you gain 3: If you swap you gain To enable this area wim needs to expand, both in software and Policing... As explained previously there needs to be a fee, £9.99 for the first year has been calculated to be a minimum non profit sum supporting development of your club.

Vehicle: LDV Position: NSR Reason: Casing contamination This condition respects no make or size of tyre.. The reason is a simple cut into the outer casing allowing water to rust the wire belts!..... Over time the constant flexing acting on the rusted strands progressively brakes them, assisted by the relentless air pressure. Symptoms: As the tyre distorts there would be an evident low speed (under 30mph) wobble from the rear, as speed increases the tyre will ride the high spots and belay any wobble.... over time the -30mph serves as a warning.... continue to ignore it then eventually it will blow out. This particular blowout was so violent that the separation of the tread literally tore the sidewalls apart as seen from the tear..... So what can we learn from this example..... If a wobble or vibration is evident under 30mph then reason is either the wheel is about to come off or a tyre has distorted.

Currently wim offers (Adjustments) discounts to various clubs by 'capping' the overall fee. Example:- Mazda MX5 has nine direct adjustments and four in-direct, for the clubs they only pay for three, all the rest are done free!... Now since each adjustment is £17.50 then the discount is very generous... In the near future wim will become its own company so prices will need to change.... wim and the clubs will agree a set price and a discounted price if the member is 'Premium' to the respected club., additional discount will only follow if the owner is 'premium here'. The suggested £9.99 yearly fee to enable the buy and sell is pitifully low, as Member/Trader interest grows so will the benefits of being 'Premium', in time additional arrangements with traders will become invaluable to members, this process obviously is progressive not instant. Another area to contemplate though the 'buy and sell' may be a 'swap shop'.... food for thought

Camber as we know in wim compliments handling, adding security to the drive domestically and is totally open for exploration in the realms of racing......... So what if the camber positions were incorrect on a new vehicle for domestic use and the owner is an experienced race driver...... Then things go wrong! Car: Nissan 350Z 04 model Position: Rear Reason: Camber related deflation Wheres the sidewall? Surely a blow out should be a single point permitting deflation...... Have another look. As you can see on the very edge of the cut is the casing, this is the deflation area (blow-out) The additional information is that the Nissan was traveling at 120mph (on the road) when the 'blow-out' happened... by the time the car had stopped the wheel rim had cut though the tyre sidewall I assume this Brown trouser moment and a visit to our designated maker was belayed because the owner had racing experience. wim suggests Be wise..... life is as cheap as chips, simple things changes important things! (Observation).... Go and have a bloody look at the tyres!

Stunning example of evolution jon Thank You for such a detailed description, wim would be honored if you can continue up-dating us with the cars development.... Other than LOC (Lexus Owners Club) and the evolution of the 'Monster' by tdiplc (Torque Developments International plc) i have never seen such a complete/determined example in any other forum.

IS300 stock is 33psi, revised by wim for the IS200/300 to 35psi last year... The Motorway psi should be suggested in the owners manual, this i would consider accurate. As for the ring it depends on the tyre grading One thing i would need to know is the sidewall Traction/Temperature grades... this will indicate how fast the tyre will come up to temperature.... Then its down to the drivers feedback. Pressure manipulation develops the 'slip-angle' this is the amount of flex at the tyre sidewall... more pressure less flex (over-steer front) or (under-steer rear) finding the balance is the trick! For the record the tyre grading is marked on the side-wall, also tyre wear for the track days and Domestic tyre wear are different by request.

Like most things technical a true understanding speaks volumes..... Most times simple reasoning's resolve the entire problem, but only if this is transmitted to the customer.... Unfurtunately is not always the case.

How does that work? Air expands with heat so by your logic he'll probably be running close to 45psi once he's underway Yep. Rolling resistance generates heat, the moisture in the air expands over inflating the tyre... So the science is to reduce the contact patch belaying the build up of temperature. Most car manufacturers suggest psi for Town/Loaded and Motorway, this particular car should have had 44psi in the tyres not 30psi.... Another factor is centrifugal force... If the tyre is running under pressure then the casings resistance to the 'centrifugal pull' is low, allowing distortion, whereas if the correct pressure was inflated the rigidity of the casing suppresses distortion. Historically tyre centres would correctly explain the problem is due to over inflation but fail to explain the exact reason... The customer then has no option but to react uneducated and deflate the tyres accelerating the wear.... this customer was a perfect example.

Yes that assumption seems reasonable... This particular customer reading the wear as over inflation lowered the psi from 36 to 30, and this actually accelerated the wear This logic is flawed as is air for inflation.... I'm not playing games here only making people think before the answer arrives..... Go again

Some sentences send shivers down my spine... 'The car feels ok' and another one 'Huston we have a problem'. Back to the wear issue..... Any thoughts?

As i recall a few caution laps on new tyres kept them under-inflated, then on a bend the weight transfer moved the camber curve and allowed the floor pan to 'sledge' the car off the track.....A tragic loss to the entire World.

Car: Calibra 4X4 Turbo Position: Rear Story: The car is lowered with progressively wound springs, whats odd is the top and bottom coils keep inverting into the main coil body.... The owner has been assured the coils are correct for the car and no other Calibra has experienced this before.. Then i happened again So after another replacement the owner wanted to conclude all his hard efforts and have the Geometry sorted... Rear camber/ toe adjusters fitted and more new coils in he came.... 50 miles...... and guess what.... Yep it done it again, in 50miles.... Seeking a reason i continued with the Geometry and nothing suspicious came to light.... like 3 degrees of camber. I wonder this, could the fact that the car is 4X4 and has the additional power from the turbo be causing this unusual effect......Any ideas

The car: BMW 535I E39 Series The Tyre: 225/55-16 The Position: Rear The Driving Environment: 90% Fast Motorway This is the second pair of rear tyres to wear in this fashion... Pressure: Actual 30psi Stock 36psi So why the wear?

No doubt loosening the restrictions of your current incarceration will liberate a freedom of thought and actions, therefore your wisdom and knowledge in the field of geometry will be essential to us. My patience, opportunity is waning fast....My release may be premature...... Although my final destination still is not final?

No doubt loosening the restrictions of your current incarceration will liberate a freedom of thought and actions, therefore your wisdom and knowledge in the field of geometry will be essential to us. Excellent opportunity for evolution.... Proof is a foundation....Any takers in wim or TDIPLC Please keep us apprised

W ?? R ?? Nah your miles away CG+PC (centre of gravity + polar centre) Interesting principle with a 45/55 ratio... Quite important though for the light 5

Quote:TDIPLC Not at STS unfortunately.... All my math is either in my head or if complicated a few hours with the old pen and paper... Geometry in truth should be as visible as a dyno.. Add every modification to the equation including Dampening/Coil Reaction then an image should be visible though the fog.... But new evolution like this dampening set-up invites constructive/destructive argument.. For Development between fields..... That's a good thing

There's not generally a significant weight difference between 2 and 3 way adjustables. Where weight is an issue, they can be made in aluminium but that is more expensive. The project we are working on at he moment is not Japanese related - it's a high value British car whose owners are generally more quality than cost conscious. The shocks will have to be returned to the manufacturer for revalving. The issue regarding the reservoir will probably vary according to the application, but a separate reservoir is preferable. Regarding the 2 secs per lap, it's exacty the same conditions except for changing the shocks. Exactly When a car is set up using one or two way damping (or no adjustment at all), there is a big compromise as it must be set for adequate performance beween slow and fast reacting damping. If it was optimised for slow reacting damping (which most set ups are) the car is unbalanced when a bump or dip is encountered. Conversely, if it is optimised for fast reacting damping, the car will be unstable under smooth conditions. Imagine a scenario where both conditions can be optimised - thats 3 and 4 way adjustable My chalk is running out now I like this scenario... Weigh plates and 'pull downs' would add an interesting evolution i feel... Has this been explored.. If not can wim assist if only in data analysis furthering development.