Carl_Silva Posted March 10, 2007 Report Share Posted March 10, 2007 If all things are equal is that the case then? I ask becuase i have a simple thing I want to do aesthetically, but how will if affect the handling? I want to Put 20mm spacers (hubcentric) on my car to bring the wheels out.. or perhaps 15mm on the front 25mm on the back. Suggestions? answers? Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 10, 2007 Report Share Posted March 10, 2007 The wider track does indeed adjust the lateral roll centre but only marginally. The main concern is the additional spacers and the new tyre contact patch (scrub radius). As desirable as the wider track is there is a desperate need to maintain where the tyre saturates. Re-defining a Geometric attitude at the chassis is the best route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl_Silva Posted March 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2007 The wider track does indeed adjust the lateral roll centre but only marginally. The main concern is the additional spacers and the new tyre contact patch (scrub radius). As desirable as the wider track is there is a desperate need to maintain where the tyre saturates. Re-defining a Geometric attitude at the chassis is the best route. so if I understand then the procedure recomended is to 1)find geometric attiditude at chassis, then 2) install desired spacers. then repeat the step 1. or what am I missing Tony? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 10, 2007 Report Share Posted March 10, 2007 The wider track does indeed adjust the lateral roll centre but only marginally. The main concern is the additional spacers and the new tyre contact patch (scrub radius). As desirable as the wider track is there is a desperate need to maintain where the tyre saturates. Re-defining a Geometric attitude at the chassis is the best route. so if I understand then the procedure recomended is to 1)find geometric attiditude at chassis, then 2) install desired spacers. then repeat the step 1. or what am I missing Tony? The area is very subjective. What is your intentions with the car? If the mods are cosmetic then very little chassis calibration is required, if track events are your intention then this thread needs to develop a very different path. Maybe read this thread regarding dynamics. http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/ind...p?showtopic=792 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted March 10, 2007 Report Share Posted March 10, 2007 putting spacers on, (can), accelerate wheel bearing failiure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl_Silva Posted March 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2007 putting spacers on, (can), accelerate wheel bearing failiure No intention to race the car. Just local high street use, shopping etc if the hubcentric spacers (aluminium and TUV approved) are going to cause safety issues I'd rather do without them. Would the safety risk issues increase with the spacer width... eg 15mm vs 25 mm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted March 11, 2007 Report Share Posted March 11, 2007 putting spacers on, (can), accelerate wheel bearing failiure No intention to race the car. Just local high street use, shopping etc if the hubcentric spacers (aluminium and TUV approved) are going to cause safety issues I'd rather do without them. Would the safety risk issues increase with the spacer width... eg 15mm vs 25 mm? hubcentric / bolt on spacers are the best to use as this reduces the strain on the factor wheel studs to reduce the effect on the bearings, and the usual need to fit spacers is the use of a wider wheel, by using the spacer you can increase clearence in the wheel well to add spacers just for stability while shopping.............is there a need Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discount tyres dan Posted March 11, 2007 Report Share Posted March 11, 2007 im looking to add spacers to my car too, but only the rear to give it that 'fat look' im after 10mm hubcentric spacers with longer wheel bolts.. thnk i can find any..? ... no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 11, 2007 Report Share Posted March 11, 2007 im looking to add spacers to my car too, but only the rear to give it that 'fat look' im after 10mm hubcentric spacers with longer wheel bolts.. thnk i can find any..? ... no Eibach do them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 11, 2007 Report Share Posted March 11, 2007 putting spacers on, (can), accelerate wheel bearing failiure No intention to race the car. Just local high street use, shopping etc if the hubcentric spacers (aluminium and TUV approved) are going to cause safety issues I'd rather do without them. Would the safety risk issues increase with the spacer width... eg 15mm vs 25 mm? Assuming all the risks regarding bearings and studs are resolved "we" would have major issues with the new tyre contact patch. By design off-set allows the tyre contact patch to fall within the front steer axis (scrub radius) and the rear needs to transport traction efficiently to belay pneumatic saturation during yaw commands. The type of mod suggested needs careful consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl_Silva Posted March 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 putting spacers on, (can), accelerate wheel bearing failiure No intention to race the car. Just local high street use, shopping etc if the hubcentric spacers (aluminium and TUV approved) are going to cause safety issues I'd rather do without them. Would the safety risk issues increase with the spacer width... eg 15mm vs 25 mm? Assuming all the risks regarding bearings and studs are resolved "we" would have major issues with the new tyre contact patch. By design off-set allows the tyre contact patch to fall within the front steer axis (scrub radius) and the rear needs to transport traction efficiently to belay pneumatic saturation during yaw commands. The type of mod suggested needs careful consideration. Yes... It would seem like letting the tyres naturally wear down, and then purchasing wheels with the correct offset for the model would be a better idea from a safety point of view, is that right? Could I just then ask a wheel supplier for say 18 inch wheels with my particular offset I need? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam@TDi Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Beleive it or not that will present exactly the same set of problems and considerations. It's the process of moving the tyre contact patch away from the suspension that gives rise to the issue's, not how you do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 I still quite fancy spacing the wheels out on my Z though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl_Silva Posted March 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Beleive it or not that will present exactly the same set of problems and considerations. It's the process of moving the tyre contact patch away from the suspension that gives rise to the issue's, not how you do it ahh i see what you mean. I reckon I will put the spacers on anyway. If there is wheel bearing failure, then I will deal with that as and when. Thanks for the heads up about it though. The bodykit screams "put spacers on me!" on a daily basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Beleive it or not that will present exactly the same set of problems and considerations. It's the process of moving the tyre contact patch away from the suspension that gives rise to the issue's, not how you do it ahh i see what you mean. I reckon I will put the spacers on anyway. If there is wheel bearing failure, then I will deal with that as and when. Thanks for the heads up about it though. The bodykit screams "put spacers on me!" on a daily basis. I agree the "fuller figure" would look better..... Looks like i have more calibration to do on your car in the future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl_Silva Posted March 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 It would be welcome Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 It would be welcome Tony. Well we have an image of the cars calibration so any modifications could only read beneficial to all involved, tiss how we learn Proving grounds are firmer underfoot in my book! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl_Silva Posted March 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 Yes Tony, good you are local. looks like im going for 25mm spacers all round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 Gulp.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl_Silva Posted March 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 talk to me... too much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 talk to me... too much? "Calibration?" hard to say on the fly... I would need to retain the projected inclination near to zero on your car.... (0 scrub radius) this thread may help.... http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/ind...p?showtopic=561 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl_Silva Posted March 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 talk to me... too much? "Calibration?" hard to say on the fly... I would need to retain the projected inclination near to zero on your car.... (0 scrub radius) this thread may help.... http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/ind...p?showtopic=561 Sounds interesting even though I cant understand the details. I should be getting the car back tomorrow, with or without spacers. If spacers are fitted, I woder if i will *feel* a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 talk to me... too much? "Calibration?" hard to say on the fly... I would need to retain the projected inclination near to zero on your car.... (0 scrub radius) this thread may help.... http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/ind...p?showtopic=561 Sounds interesting even though I cant understand the details. I should be getting the car back tomorrow, with or without spacers. If spacers are fitted, I woder if i will *feel* a difference. You will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl_Silva Posted March 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2007 not only did i feel a difference (probably subjective) I heard one too. the sound of the damn tyres fouling the rear arches on turns. bumps, and harsh acceleration. Solution: exchanging the 25mm hubcentrics for 20mm ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 23, 2007 Report Share Posted March 23, 2007 not only did i feel a difference (probably subjective) I heard one too. the sound of the damn tyres fouling the rear arches on turns. bumps, and harsh acceleration. Solution: exchanging the 25mm hubcentrics for 20mm ones. I won't gloat but i said "you will"..... Assuming the rub is not to severe i can dip the camber -30 or -40' so that the camber gain misses the arch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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