Tony Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 This is a kit car... I have asked what chassis and running gear its on, and i have no actual Geometric image to display this should all follow soon. So in advance i thought i would air the complaint so we can get our thinking caps on. ...................................... Complaint. The steering seems dead on turn initiation and gives little or no feel as to what is happening to the tyres as you wind on the lock, It is stable at speed, non power-assisted and only a little heavy at the wheel as it is mid-engined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger440 Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 excessive toe in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 excessive toe in? Maybe..... Your thoughts on the kpi/sji.. I wonder if the kpi is to inclined leaving a dead zone until the castor curve.... He says the car is fully adjustable, hopefully this is in the X. Y. Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger440 Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Hmmm, not really sure about that. It would need to be significantly wrong though to have that effect though? Im guessing that this is quite a light car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Hmmm, not really sure about that. It would need to be significantly wrong though to have that effect though? Im guessing that this is quite a light car? Me to... so a long castor is reasonable since there would be little reaction from the kpi... That "dead zone" is unusual though don't you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Additional information. ...................................... Customer email .............. The chassis is bespoke Phantom as is most of the suspension. Double wishbone front and de-dion tube rear, Rover 827 mid-mounted. Pictures of the car can viewed at http://www.phantom.uk.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger440 Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Additional information....................................... Customer email .............. The chassis is bespoke Phantom as is most of the suspension. Double wishbone front and de-dion tube rear, Rover 827 mid-mounted. Pictures of the car can viewed at http://www.phantom.uk.com Interesting! Never even heard of it. Looks almost normal. Re the suggestion of toe, as you know, my experience centres largely on 2 types of car. With a Porsche even with toe a mile out, feedback through the steering is always good. Monaros on the other hand, very different. optimum toes (for good tyre wear) is 15', but at 20' its starting to feel dead. I once set one at 25', part of an experiment, it was utterly lifeless. Never really thought about why before. Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Additional information....................................... Customer email .............. The chassis is bespoke Phantom as is most of the suspension. Double wishbone front and de-dion tube rear, Rover 827 mid-mounted. Pictures of the car can viewed at http://www.phantom.uk.com Interesting! Never even heard of it. Looks almost normal. Re the suggestion of toe, as you know, my experience centres largely on 2 types of car. With a Porsche even with toe a mile out, feedback through the steering is always good. Monaros on the other hand, very different. optimum toes (for good tyre wear) is 15', but at 20' its starting to feel dead. I once set one at 25', part of an experiment, it was utterly lifeless. Never really thought about why before. Any suggestions? With the pro-drive, Sam@tdi experience i have a fair idea but not in this thread.... Only respecting the owners viewing since he has been invited to watch this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam@TDi Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 I would suggest taking a look at the "static" front axle toe and the way it moves as the suspension is loaded. At first glance I’d suspect that this car is toeing out a little at the front, it is just possible that the lag being experienced in the yaw response is the loading of the contact patch simply reversing itself before it winds up and begins to produce meaningful lateral acceleration in the required direction. You can obviously test this fairly easily with one simple toe adjustment and if you find it works as expected I’d be inclined to return a small amount of static "toe out" to the front axle and instead maybe move the front wheel camber slightly more negative, this will have the effect of pre-loading the contact patch a little Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 I would suggest taking a look at the "static" front axle toe and the way it moves as the suspension is loaded. At first glance I’d suspect that this car is toeing out a little at the front, it is just possible that the lag being experienced in the yaw response is the loading of the contact patch simply reversing itself before it winds up and begins to produce meaningful lateral acceleration in the required direction. You can obviously test this fairly easily with one simple toe adjustment and if you find it works as expected I’d be inclined to return a small amount of static "toe out" to the front axle and instead maybe move the front wheel camber slightly more negative, this will have the effect of pre-loading the contact patch a little Seemingly the car has a very light front end.. So i lean toward lateral force more than conical pneumatic camber compression/ deformation. Being RWD i assume the steering arms are in front of the axil and the toe tendancy will be toward negative so a positive "static" toe would be desirable retaining lateral compression to the tyres during yaw initiation (the dead zone) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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