jon Posted October 11, 2006 Report Share Posted October 11, 2006 I know what needs to be done but in true Tony fashion i'll throw it out to suggestion and enlightenment. After a recent silverstone trackday my tyres measured: .........O C I I C O NSF 61.3 | 54.5 | 53.4 | 54.5 | 51.4 | 49.6 OSF NSR 74.0 | 64.0 | 64.0 | 64.8 | 61.6 | 57.5 OSR Bearing in mind it's an anti clockwise circuit with the last 2 corners very hard right handers. Temperatures were taken after a cool down lap with (hot) pressures of 35psi rear and 31psi front. The rear tyres over heated in that session, i'd estimate they were probably closer to 100c before the cooldown lap. On the plus side i laped as fast as anything and had a battle with a 996 GT3 RS and won! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 11, 2006 Report Share Posted October 11, 2006 I know what needs to be done but in true Tony fashion i'll throw it out to suggestion and enlightenment. After a recent silverstone trackday my tyres measured: O C I I C O NSF 61.3 | 54.5 | 53.4 | 54.5 | 51.4 | 49.6 OSF NSR 74.0 | 64.0 | 64.0 | 64.8 | 61.6 | 57.5 OSR Bearing in mind it's an anti clockwise circuit with the last 2 corners very hard right handers. Temperatures were taken after a cool down lap with (hot) pressures of 35psi rear and 31psi front. The rear tyres over heated in that session, i'd estimate they were probably closer to 100c before the cooldown lap. On the plus side i laped as fast as anything and had a battle with a 996 GT3 RS and won! You cementing the 996 doesnt surprise me jon i don't understand the O C I I C O code can you expand on this... also what is the temperature code marked on the sidewall of the tyre 'A, AA, B ,C'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted October 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2006 Bridgestone s02's, so AA. O = outside, C = Center, I = inside of the tyre. I layed out the temperatures as if you were looking at the car from above. Very useful for a clear picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 11, 2006 Report Share Posted October 11, 2006 Bridgestone s02's, so AA. O = outside, C = Center, I = inside of the tyre. I layed out the temperatures as if you were looking at the car from above. Very useful for a clear picture. Yes mate , the second 'I' threw me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted October 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2006 I feel donnington will be a more interesting study, the silverstone national is a bit rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 I feel donnington will be a more interesting study, the silverstone national is a bit rubbish. The temperature range displayed is compliant with the track design the pneumatic slip angle, weight transition and slight over-steer... The osf O @ 49.6 (cool) and osr O @ 74 (hot) supports that. What are you objectives with this information jon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted October 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Well, looking at those temperatures I'd say the outside of both the near side tyres are being well overworked, thus needing more camber for the long right handers. However it's also clear due to the lack of left handers the INSIDE of the OFFSIDE tyres are being over worked due to too much camber. I guess it will always be a compromise, but for that circuit i'd like to see the temperatures with at least another degree front and rear as it's the near side tyres we need to be using to their full potential. BTW, you've your temperatures mixed up in that post Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Well, looking at those temperatures I'd say the outside of both the near side tyres are being well overworked, thus needing more camber for the long right handers. However it's also clear due to the lack of left handers the INSIDE of the OFFSIDE tyres are being over worked due to too much camber. I guess it will always be a compromise, but for that circuit i'd like to see the temperatures with at least another degree front and rear as it's the near side tyres we need to be using to their full potential. BTW, you've your temperatures mixed up in that post Tony. nsf/osr/ inside leg...... I'm just tied mate!..... same findings though Long..............Looooooong time ago i used to set a Formula Ford Geometry and every other week this car would appear for another set-up.... strange i thought The reason was that the developers used completely different set-up's for each track (dam obvious now) but at the time this seemed strange. The results from the tyre temperatures will always be inconsistent depending on the track so i struggle to overlap the temperature results and the Geometry positions in a global format.... fine tuning yes but conclusive no? Also the inside of the offside tyres are reacting to weight transfer/Pneumatic slip this is evident on the ns tyre temperatures, to counter the temperature differential by manipulating the Geometry positions would only benefit the one corner, by example. This would be detrimental to the straights and vary with the corner radii. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted October 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 You're right it varies corner to corner and more importantly track to track, but in that example i feel more camber would be benificial over the total laptime. Do you not agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 You're right it varies corner to corner and more importantly track to track, but in that example i feel more camber would be benificial over the total laptime. Do you not agree? I have to agree!.... Secretly since i know the toe positions are wrong The summary displayed is not without error and we are both aware debate in an attempt to seek a reasonable conclusion would be wrong... agreed Collective analysis in every possible format is healthy, if this only forms part of future reconstructive formula then the results are fantastic in the collective bank... Your data is very valuable and we need to expand your efforts in a absolute testing format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted October 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 I like the idea of a proper testing / datacollection format. Time to get naughty with the spreadsheets! The only problem i have with winding in more camber is on the drive to the tracks i'm wearing the inside of the tyre quite badly, i need to get a trailor i think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 I like the idea of a proper testing / datacollection format. Time to get naughty with the spreadsheets! The only problem i have with winding in more camber is on the drive to the tracks i'm wearing the inside of the tyre quite badly, i need to get a trailor i think The tyre wear was expected, the rate suggested so no real surprises there jon... I will be investing in corner weighting and chassis diagnostics very soon so we can explore much more information, this i am sure will open another door for us both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo 37 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 nice measures ! how are your toe set? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 nice measures !how are your toe set? The MR2 is RWD, if i recall jon had a static toe of around 15' positive but in those days we didn't measure toe tendency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hms Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 These are my thoughts. Any comments on the logic or oterwise would be appreciated. Temperatures consistant with a clockwise circuit as the NS outer and OS inner are at higher temps. Silverstone is an anti-clock circuit? I believe, ideally the centre temp should be the average of the two outer temps ............O C I I C O NSF 61.3 | 54.5 | 53.4 | 54.5 | 51.4 | 49.6 OSF NSR 74.0 | 64.0 | 64.0 | 64.8 | 61.6 | 57.5 OSR Average NSF 57.35 OSF 52.05 NSR 69.00 OSR 61.15 On the OS tyres the average temp is within 1 degree of the central temp. So the assumption (of this particular idiot who know's nothing!) is that the OS set up is OK under cornering, but something is altering the camber of the NSwheel on cornering to remove weight from the inner to the outer edge of the tyre. Is this camber, toe or tyre under pressure and scrubbing? Or could it be just the time taken to measure the temps? Having just looked at that again, the max difference from average to actual is 5 degrees. What is the aceptable limit for temp differences before we say, yes there is something not working OK and that is down to 'noise,' time taken to read etc h Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 I would say it's the other way around... The driver highlights a problem then the tyre temps tell you where and what to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted July 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 @ HMS Silverstone (national) is clockwise. There is only one left hand turn that generates any temperature and it's short. It's been so long since this day I've forgotten how the car was. It was probably tail happy, as I like it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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