chrisgixer

Have driven other members cars on 17" f1a2 and would see that as a step back tbh. A good all round tyre don't get me wrong but, as all things are relative, we have found better grip levels on other tyres such as sc3 and RT, and especially the old Dunlop TT. But more expensive obviously. F1 being a bit waxy by comparison Esp. in colder temps. Although, to achieve a balance, if the rears where due for replacement, then f1 would be a way. But the over all grip level would suffer. I see Dunlop still list the TT. Not that any usefull size comes up of course.

V8 is alloy block ls1. Omega y32se is cast iron block. So weight shouldn't be too far away, but a valid point non the less. And for reasons stated earlier, I tend to look for first hand experience when researching these things. Although unlikely to find any omega love here, with pss fitted, it's a wobbly old boat unless it's maintained continually in the chassis dept. Maybe the Mercedes forum with be worth a look too. E class (?) looks to be the same weight ish.

So to clarify further. Mid corner both tyres starting to squeal on the edge of traction. Car is balanced. Still in that corner, both tyres on the edge of grip. Wave a magic wand and make the rears an inch wider, for argument sake. The rears now have more grip so stop squealing. I can now go faster without loosing the rear . Except that the front is now braking loose as speed increases. Aka Under steer. Logic now says wave that Magic wand and make the fronts wider too(to me at least). So we can match the rear end grip and go faster or safer round the same corner. Except we can't do that as the strut and wheel arch are in the way. So I now need more grip at the front. To stop the under steer. Gripier front tyres works, I know this from the RT experiment although they wore quickly and are now not suitable. But they did give more grip and help the under steer. More camber might be an option, maybe Tony would add his thoughts there? Already -1.15 though. :-\ It's mid corner balance that's at the heart of the issue. Arguably the wider rears has upset this balance, but I don't want to remove grip, especially given the v8 project and the fact that under steer is safer than over steer. Hopefully that makes sense?

So you don't think a wider contact patch at the rear would give potential for more grip at the rear....? I don't want to sound abrupt so appologies in advance, but can I suggest a re read of post 1? It's all there. Bearing in mind we're taking balance. Mid corner. Corner speed. ... In this scenario, front lets go first. As it would, arguably. Happy with the rear grip level, dont want to touch that although i realise I may have to. Ultimately. As said earlier. I had conti sc3 and had a level of understeer. Replaced those with initially gripier RT which improves the understeer. While RT didn't last, they did prove that more front grip helps the under steer. Re camber it's set to WIM sport settings at -1.15. That's not to say more camber wouldn't help, it may do, although iirc more camber affects straight line stability....? (worse.) which I'm already struggling with although that's probably the RT's, known to be less stable than sc3 anyway.

Irmscher sport pack available as a factory fit option. Arguably the omega is not the best chassis in the world for that size of car, but most of the work on this car is in preparation for a v8 project that I might finish one day. If I do then this will need fixing. Possibly by narrower rears. But in the mean time, to answer your question.... No.

Re Audi fitment. Yes I know that now. :y But your post and my experience of the ao1 sc3 in proof enough that not all sc3 where created equal. So it would follow, that not all tyres work equally on all cars. Which also applies to Falkens btw. The very fact that manufacturers either pick existing/or develop their own tyres to suit a particular car, automatically means not all tyres work on all cars. Right? Or have I missed something?

From top of post 1. I'm on the mobile site, which doesn't appear to quote button so copied and pasted. Wheels are staggered. 9j rear with 265x35x18 sports content 3. Massive side grip. Good wear and stability. (Bit noisy but not bothered) 8j front. 245x40x18 Dunlop sport maxx RT. A grippy tyre. Not as stable as sc3 as the wear starts to deform the profile. "UNEVEN" Wear not excessive, but the instability is becoming a bit much after 5000miles.

Because the rears are wider. As said, 265 9j rear 245 8j front. No? There was no understeer with OE 17" wheels same width front and back/sc3 all round. So, given the same TYPE of tyres all round, the wider rears would give more grip surely ? Hence the front lets go first and gives understeer...? I thought i pointed that out no?

Re model specific tyres. I had generic sc3 on Oe wheels on omega. 235x?x17 no problems. Moved up to 18's with sc3 Mercedes only or whatever the "o" means. Even better presumably due to 245 width. Once those wore out my supplier opposed up and only had ao1 sc3 in stock. Turned out to be an audi fitment. Completely differant animal. Wore out quicker with nowhere near the stability of the mo version. I knew I'd made a mistake just by driving out if the Depo. Instantly noticeably more sensitive to road imperfections. (Tramlining generally speaking) binned early as they became dangerous on the brakes. Darting to the kerb or into oncoming traffic in emergency braking situations, something the Mrs wouldn't be able to hold on line due to lack of strength. Back to mo sc3, the clouds parted, the sun came out, and all was right with the world again. Stability, grip (not outright grip but that associated with a proper contact patch) precise handling generally. ....But some under steer. Which brings me nicely back round to the question at hand. I feel confident PS3 would go the same way as on TheBoys omega. Are pilot super sport that much better than PS3? And will they work the same on your car as mine/our omegas...? Certainly I would not fit an Audi only or Porsche only tyre. While I am more than happy to pay top money for a tyre that works, given the problems we've had, I am extremely loathed to pay top money to find the tyre transforms the car into a death trap desperate to leave the road at the slightest road imperfection after a few k miles. A leap of faith though, is part of the game it seems....?

Apologies for the typos btw. Steve Jobs software and fat fingers not a good combo.

RT was replacement for the discontinued TT, I believe. Not as good. Lasted 5000 miles before the handling became unacceptable with half the legal tread gone. Will look into the pilot sport range. I did suggest that primacy where more of a mileage tyre, and that a more suitable sport orientated tyre must be available from Michelin. .....but certain members there wouldnt have it. Rightly or wrongly. They know who they are. (Members here too lol)

Omega owners experience suggests High end tyres Max grip RT Slightly less grip but more stable and last longer sc3 Eagle F1 bit waxy by comparison. Quiet, some quality issues. (Michelin generally (primacy?) thought to loose high grip levels quickly and settle down for serious miles at the expense of lateral grip. For this reason I'm concerned about paying their massive price) Mid range Kumho ku31 / 39 midrange tyre what more to say. Falken avoid 451 and 192 Budget Accelerate alpha Nexen (wince) Some others I can't be arsed with personally.

So, given Fslkens will never go near my car again, are we saying PSS are the way? For Tony, I had sc3 on the front as a set, and went to RT for more grip after recommendations from members on omegaowners. RT grip level did help the under steer. But I need more.

Ok, I was hoping to avoid the Falken thing, and that people here had forgotten mine and others experiences of that disaster of a tyre and the havoc it causes with omega handling under certain circumstances, especially on enthusiastically driven Elites with soft suspension. Personally I think drifting is absolutely ideal for any Falken as their inherent refusal to go in a straight line will never be exposed in that disaplin. .....however that would be unfair on liner33 as he couldn't possibly have known, and my experience is with the 451 and 192 not the newer model which might be fine. I have also driven smaller more accurately suspended cars than the onega that where fine on Falkens. Then again, I have to say, drifting is of no use to me as pointer the tyre quality. Fitting end to a Falken or not.

Noted Michelin pss btw. Any more thoughts? Michelins are steep in 18,s although not beyond budget if necessary.

Thanks for replies. Yes sports contact 3 Yes Vauxhall omega I guess thing to remember is the balance of the car front to back. It's under steering ultimately. I fully agree that some tyres work on smaller cars and not on bigger, or on front wheel drive and not rear wheel drive and vice versa. Falkens being a prime example, a tyre that's is totally devoid of directional stabilty on omegas, yet seems to work well on smaller/front wheel drive cars. Omega is a two ton rear wheel drive car btw. But if I could focus minds a bit on the cars balance. I just need to add more grip to the front, given the current set up. So as the question, given the model car and not changing the rears, what tyre can I fit that will offer more grip on the front...? Car has WIM set up btw, (-1.15 front camber) with sport suspension. I am happy with the geo and suspension, just need to up the front grip level.

So your recommending Falken 453 for more grip than sport maxx RT?

Wheels are staggered. 9j rear with 265x35x18 sports content 3. Massive side grip. Good wear and stability. (Bit noisy but not bothered) 8j front. 245x40x18 Dunlop sport maxx RT. A grippy tyre. Not as stable as sc3 as the wear starts to deform the profile. "UNEVEN" Wear not excessive, but the instability is becoming a bit much after 5000miles. So given the current set up gives under steer, and the fronts need replacing, what tyres should I fit to even up the balance of grip level...? I could fit a less grippy rear, like f1 Asym2, but the rears are a long way off replacememt. The immediate answer would be fit a front tyre with more grip than RT. ...but does such a thing exist without getting into track tyres that don't work in the wet on the road?

If using Nitrogen, as I have in the front, having picked up two cheap sc3's from costco... Is there a standard increase applied over and above the standard "air" pressure? Because, if using air, the tyre pressure increases as temp rises with use. So, if for track use for instance, (on bikes ime) you'd start with a much lower psi to achieve a similar operating temp pressure. Say 26 or 27 psi for a target operating temp of 36psi I think it was. Sorry I don't have a memory for numbers. But if I had Nitrogen instead, the psi wouldn't increase, if advertising is to be believed, (must check my pressures more regularly or I'd know this) so with Nitrogen I'd have to start with a much higher psi nearer the target operating temp/pressure. But I've not seen mention of this from tyre companies offering Nitrogen. So what am I missing..? I'd expect to be told to add a couple of psi for Nitrogen while maintaining pressures for road use, and, say, add 5 or 6 psi for track use for example, over and above a cold pressure if using air. Because Nitrogen doesn't increase psi with temperature. Right? I realise I don't have facility to add Nitrogen if topping up pressures for a slight leak or for heavy loads, so its a bit of a moot point, but if going to the lengths of using Nitrogen, I'd want to be accurate about it. Tbh. Having said all that, there does appear to be other reasons for using Nitrogen. Reading this, I really must drain my garage compressor of water. http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/repair-questions/4302788

After a recent rear puncture that took about a minute to deflate, 30 seconds of which was spent driving on a flat tyre which destroyed it internally looking for a safe place to stop, it's become clear that an instant warning of low pressure and high temp would of saved me two rear tyres at £400 Why two? Because now the new tyre is fitted, the car pulls right on the power and left off the throttle, as the other rear is 2/3rds warn. Ok I've had the best out of them but I could do with getting the full life out of tyres this expensive. They where handling ok. Anyway, after being sceptical, I've now seen the potential benefits of tpms. Especially as some systems are cheaper than a pair of rears for me, plus I like the idea of live data on pressures. My concerns are the response times. My preference is for the external valve mounted type, and wonder how quickly this system can warn the driver? Every millisecond counts, it seems to me, to allow the driver as much time to stop before the rim grinds the internals to bits. Also , the experience has shows why used tyres are a risk. If a valve fails and runs flat, the tyre would look fine externally, but inside half the rubber is missing with little to show the fault on the internal pattern.

Is it anything to do with the local council gritting regime...? Although this is the second cold snap this year.

Hi Tony, and thankyou. I will look into a symmetrical tread, in an attempt to lessen the odds to the problem re occurring. But in the cae of the sc3 mo/ao1 the tread pattern is exactly the same, so I had ruled that out as a cause in this particular case. Speed rating seems unlikely as the problem occurs at any speed, and these models have the same rating iirc. Approved ratings per manufacturer seem highly relevant to me too. Audi being front wheel drive, Merc rear. If only the generic sc3 had been available... Although, thinking back, I enquired about rim protection at a different tyre supplier, and was offered "another" model sc3 instead. Pure chance it worked on my car, and I was happy. Pehaps I should enquired somewhere, Audi perhaps, exactly which models the Ao1 is fitted to. If its smaller front wheel drive models there may be a clue. Ao1 might imply there is an Ao2.., or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Interesting post. Getting fingers burned on expensive poor handling tyres, has probably been the most expensive aspect my car ownership. Falkens obviously having an exceptionally poor stability problem on the omega, as echoed above, yet also being exceptionally quiet. While Falken excelled and failed in equal measure with they're tyres on the omega, both aspects must be high on a tyre manufacturers priority list, which makes me think noise and stability might be something of a trade off tyre makers have to balance, given Falken and Dunlops traits, linked with the Sumitomi in Japan. Or am I reading too much into those connections...? Yet, Goodyear have managed a quiet AND a stable tyre in the Eagle F1. Then again, Dunlop are linked to Goodyear in Europe I believe(I forget who owns who? ), and while Dunlops seem very stable and planted, they are hardly known as a quiet tyre. So with Dunlops in mind, as we are primarily looking for they're historic known stability it seems, will the new EU tyre labelling bugger up Dunlops exceptionally stable characteristics, if they have to be seen to sell a quiet, fuel efficient tyre that brakes well in the wet? This might make the Dunlop Sportmax TT replacement, the RT, something of an expensive gamble as it was designed to meet the new EU labelling. Especially given economics these days, new models might give Manufacturers a chance to make a good tyre a cheaper tyre. Also, new models appear more regularly these days it seems. Then the customer is forced to experiment on another model, as old faithful is discontinued, and the risk of burnt fingers increases again. This makes fitting the original approved factory fit tyre difficult too obviously. (Not that's we would in this case) How on earth are customers to know what they are buying, prior to stumping up ? The car is in good repair, no faults, set up by Tony himself, fitted with new tyres, with correct size speed and load ratings, and on driving away the car can very easily behave worse than when it arived on poor set up and the buggered old boots it came in with. There are no tests for tramlining I know of. No tyre maker or car mag is going to test tyres on an old model such as the omega, and tests are all on smaller front wheel drive cars that have different weight, set ups, and tyre demands than large heavy rear wheel drive cars like the omega, going by experiences at least. We can't even fathom the problem on a forum dedicated to this one single model. Sports contact 3 where a reasonably stable, good performing tyre. What went wrong on the sc5? And how do we avoid the problem of a bad vehicle tire match again. Confused at omegaowners.com

Oh, and the side wall construction label is Differant too. I have pics somewhere. You may remember discussing this previously..? How does the compound differ btw? Ao1 wearing quicker, if anything.

Thanks for quick reply. Ok, so just to be sure, we are looking at this... /___245___\ with higher sidewalls pointing at the hub centre on the MO. Which works. |___235___| with relatively lower and hence stiffer side walls pointing away from the hub cente. ...effectively.