chrisgixer

Michelin pilot super sports 245 40 18 mo fitted to the front. Over steer returns. But the rear sc3 are now due for replacement. So we'll see. Very impressed with Mpss so far. Stable, quieter, more grip, minimal unwanted feedback, more grip, compliant, more grip, and reasonably priced. Oh and did I mention, more grip? Even more than a Falken.

I'd take some convincing that an all purpose tyres won't be (putting it politely) compromised in every area.

I found the 912 shockingly unstable after a third of the thread had gone. Zero directional stability, like driving in a constant cross wind, with water baloons for tyres. Horrid on omegas mostly. But midrange grip levels, with a quiet and comfortable ride quality. No experience of the newer Falkens though. Not likely too either ;D

I think your safe Tony National tyres are renowned for finding an excuse to get under your car and find stuff that needs replacing. Weather it does or not. So a standard National advert then.

Would it be fair to say, for the consumer, once wear is evident, that wear is irreversible and could well affect the handling for the rest of the tyres life? Perhaps not so much in a narrower tyre, but on wider performance tyres it's too late if bad wear is evident. Therfor important to get it right from the outset...?

Ooooohohooo if only that where legal too. Slicks, inters, wets. Where would it all end.

I was driven in a newly purchased vxr8 back in the summer. Noisy, vibration through the car. Clearly suffering from lack of grip. I asked what's going on, owner said previous owner had left the winters on it and he hadn't had time to change them. I guess it depends on ones definition of "works" in the summer. Sure they'll keep the rims off the floor and meet a minimum legal tread depth, for a while. But surely we're not saying winters are as good as summers in summer? Are we? And presumably we're allowing for the severity (or lack of) of the winters in the UK especially in the south. Given the floods of the last few years I rekon a good rain tyres is a better choose given the averages. Tbh. But there we are. Each to their own as they say.

When the conditions are suitable for them, I'll be there no worries. But until then.... no. Thankyou.

That's a rather shocking experience to relate. I run winters all year, because they are the best tyre for winter use (note that I don't just say "snow"...), and in the summer they perform as well as a summer tyre does. At least on the van. I fit new winters at the end of October or such like, and run them over the winter, then I run them into summer and run them off. If they last til October time then they get ditched in favour of a new set, and if they don't last that long then I put my spare summer wheels and tyres on for the odd few weeks when I need to. So being realistic, you would rather take a chance on summer tyres and hope it doesn't get to a point where you need the extra stopping performance of a winter tyre? I would rather have the stopping power and be confident that I'm doing as much as I can to prevent an accident which would invariably make my day a bad one. But whatever works for you I guess. But since your post above stating how dangerous your summer tyres are, I would perhaps consider other road users a little. Oh I do consider other road users a little, by fitting the best summer tyres I can find that best suit the conditions. That of summer. Do you not see a level of hypocracy in your post given you have the wrong tyres fitted for a 90% of the year? Then suggesting someone with the correct tyres for most of the year is inconsiderate. ...? You'll note I'm presuming your driving situation is the same as mine, without seeing the other point of view. The reality is though, your obviously more than welcome to fit winters or not, same as I am. Be it winter..... Or summer. And that given I have agro with grip levels on summer tyres in summer, I'm damn sure I'll struggle with winters in summer.

As I said above winter tyres work above 7 degrees so it's not a problem. To a point yes, as do summers below, to a point. An over lap. Where both work on a directly proportionate scale according to temp. But until the temp is firmly planted in the range of one or the other..... Can't really demand anyone uses one or the other, can we. Hence no law on compulsory winters. I must the say the day winters become compulsory in the UK we'll have a site more to worry about than what tyres to fit, imo.

a similarly out of context counter might be, clearly you don't expext the temp to go ABOVE 7c if your fitting winters! I think the met office might have something to say about that too. See what I mean? Let's ketp it realistic aye.

It's below 7 now. but was 12 mid day. Not sure what you expect to achieve with that post tbh. It's a bit like somebody standing up and saying you sl wasted your money on winters, because my situation doesn't warrant them. Unless I see consistent snow and conditions that match winters. Not happening. That doesn't mean the odd dip below 7c won't happen. What you need to remember is it's the conditions that will change my mind. Not out of contexts post on a forum. Our winters are milder than ever after all. Yet somehow the need for winters is also higher than ever. Ok, advances in technology etc. etc but I'm not buying winters for the off chance of snow or bit of cold on three of 7 days in my working week when I live 200 yards from a bus route that will be well gritted the day before. The implication that winters for one, or one group, means einrers for all, is prety rude and narrow minded don't you think? Now if I was in the highlands or out in the boonies then that's another story. Works for you, good stuff. Doesn't mean it must work for everyone.

Now then. Let's try to remember the context shall we. I did say that I don't expect temps to drop fully into the winter tyre range. And I don't expect snow and that if it did snow there would be problems. There's does seem to be lot of speed reading and picking out snippets out of context on here. Granted if conditions fully suit winters they will be preferable. For about a week round these parts anyway.

Possibly. But a list of width sizes, as given with differant makes and models that clearly give differant widths, doesn't mean those makes and models will give a footprint directly relative to the width measurement. Assuming the same make and model would give best chance, with a wider size. Fluid dynamics and pressures aside. To my thinking anyway. ...? Interested to see what Tony and others says reguarding this.

Another thought occurs (and the initial question was so simple, lol) with the omega v8 project in mind, the car will not be dissimilar in set up to a vxr8 although that has a two inch wider body and presumably that applies to the track as well. Vxr8 apparently uses a much more upright front camber than omega. Although I dont have a precise figure.

Often wondered how the stated width relates to the actual contact patch on the road? Given variances in profile/pressure/vehichle weight I guess there's almost no accurate correlation at all? Eg....Given my 18's will take a 235 and a 245. This doesn't necessarily mean a 245 will have a wider footprint. Just points to the differance in that particular manufacturers sizes, relative to the next smaller or bigger size.

I'd look to control that with pressure to an extent. If that's reasonable, to a point...? Although I'd not expect go see that's sort of sustained side load on the road. Track yes. I do adjust psi several times through out the year to allow for ambient temp. And ride quality. The ride gets noticeably firmer as the temp drops. The noticeable change level seems to be 20c. Above that the ride is supple and compliant with good grip and the car tracks well. Below that, have to drop the pressures to achieve the same. Below 8c it's all out of range no matter what. It feels a bit harsh and comparatively scitish this time of year. I'm still love driving it though, dont get me wrong. But the effect is noticeable. Should add, the ride quality v temp equation is more noticeable since fitting poly bushes. Which isn't altogether surprising given its pored into a mould hot at manufacture, and can be frozen in a household freezer to briefly to allow machining.

Only thing I would say, is winters would keep the mileage and wear off the summer tyres, when you can't really use them. Not so much due to temp. But due to the grit they use in winter. The roads become noticeably more slippy once gritted. Noted as a reference when the temp goes back up to the pre gritted cinditions, yet the grip isn't there. I saw a report they use molasses in the grit to make it stick and hold the salt on the road longer. So the road can be dry, although the grit seems to hold moisture longer, yet the grip level just isn't there.

Shan't be bothering with winters personally. Will be a problem if it snows true enough, but how long until the roads are cleared and things return to normal. A day? Or two? My shifts mean a 3 day week (12hours) so that's half the odds of having to drive in snow/if it snows, right there. Then, if it does snow, with any consequence, those with summer tyres block the roads anyway as happened round here 5 or so years ago. Couple of days and the roads get gritted and we all carry on as before. I might have to dig my way out of our culdesac. But everyone chips in so no biggy there. But let's face it, it hasn't snowed for years in the south of the country. Temps vary too much below and above 7c within a week to be sure of the tight temp range. It was 12c in Berkshire at 8pm last night on the 19th dec. I just don't see either summers or winters being in the right temp range all winter. Added to my opinion, that a good summer will work better than a cheap winter in winter, storage, swapping them over twice a year. Bah, not worth the trouble for me tbh. Although, I have sports contact 3's on the rear, and may have to fit them to the front as well. These are bloody useless if it snows. A winter tyre test backed up my experience one snowy morning on said sc3. A test of 10 winter tyres, with the sc3 as a comparison. Braking test in snow. All winters had stopped when braking from 30mph. Yet the sc3 was still doing 27mph. I can vouch for this. On snow, they absolutey will not stop. Ever, almost. After qua drooling my braking distance for a red light on my commute and brake testing to see what I had. I over shot by 40 feet. Luckily, the lights where on a round about, with a road through the middle on my intended route, so I was able to steer round to first exit, meaning the I had further to stop. Drivers need to know things like this begore buying. Excellent summer tyres, imo. But appalling in snow, and presumably mud as well.

Or.... Fit a softer tyre with more grip.

Currenty running 33psi rear. Wear is possibly more concentrated in the middle. Trailing arm rear suspension 31psi front. Wear is more concentrated in the edges. But then it's mcphurson strut suspension with a wider fitment. These omegas are known for more camber deflection on the front, (as I'm sure I don't need to explain to Tony) as I understand it, so "normal wear" tends to give flat in the middle rears, and rounded fronts with all the wear on the edges, with very minimal wear in the middle of the front tread. I think it's accepted that if you can keep the front wear even throughout the tyres life, with a fraction more in the inner edge, then you have the set up at the best compromise. It can take a set of front tyres to see how well your doing, re driver style etc v camber setting to find the wear level required. I must admit I haven't checked the tyre wear for a month ish, but last I looked it seemed " normal " given the above.

What do you mean wider but more narrow? Take a car of a given weight. Remove the wheels and fit say, a shopping trolly wheel. Much smaller area. Car will sink into Tarmac much more on a hot day than a much the much bigger road tyre. Much like quick sand. Stand up in quick sand, you sink. Spread your weight, lie down, and spreade your arms and legs, you stop sinking. Now fit the same wider tyre I have on mine. Wider area, BUT to compress the wider tyre to give the same for and aft contact patch as the narrower tyre, due to the way the tyre is constructed, you need to either increase the weight, or as my question, decrease the pressure. ....?

Undoubtedly though, the single most obvious differance between mine, and TheBoys, is the wider rear. The single most obvious differance in the way the cars drive, is understear on the limit. And the limit is prety much in the same place on both cars, as he looses traction at a similar place in the same corner, yet I'm able to get on the power a bit earlier. ....And my rears don't let go. Same set up target settings. Very similar suspension components. Same model, engine, and year. Etc etc.... I see what Tony is saying re width and actual size/area of contact patch, given the same weight. Taking the equation away from my particular car for a minute. Would that imply a lower tyre pressure would work, generally speaking, given the same weight? Edit to add; Lateral grip is indeed enhanced I think it's fair to say. Grip on the power might be compromised but there is room for leeway there's as its only 218bhp. ....so far looking to at least double that with the v8.

No, arb's are stock. I see no need to upgrade these, given gm use the same part accross the range from soggy soft Elites, through standard suspension on cd and cdx up to the much firmer sprung mv6. Same arb on all models. Body roll is much improved with firmer suspension. Further. TheBoy, who posted earlier, has no such under steer issues on his omega. Very similar suspension set up. Same polys, springs, and front wheels. Wim set up. His wheels are the same width front and back. Same tyres front and back. So why no under sterring on his?

Why does a tyre become sufficient for a certain car/bhp or brake package though? We are taking lateral load after all. Description might suggest a differant driving style, more aligned with power and brakes, rather than corner speed. You guys appear to be talkng about throttle and brakes alone and being happy with tyres that suit those two directional forces, and those alone. To a certain extent. There is, dare I say, I third axis to consider when buying tyres. Imo ate least. Is that fair to say? For example.....Can you tell me if the front or rear lets go in a corner (mid corner) first, or both together? Omega has; Front. 30mm drop Irmscher springs, Bilstein b4 shocks. Poly front bushes. Oe rubber rearward bushes, as no poly exist for these. Heavy duty top mounts. Poly roll bar bushes.All less than two years old. Rear 15mm drop mv6 rear springs. (More than 20mm and settings not achievable) Bilstein b4 shocks. Poly rear subframe bushes. LSD. That's not say there aren't improvements to be had somewhere though.