Tony
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Was at a local MX5 meet last night and was approached by one of the members and he couldn't thank Janey and Tony enough for sorting out his MX5.
He wanted to thank Tony again for sorting out a problem because his car was eating his tyres for a living, after Tony sorted it, it made his car much much much better.
The member wanted to thank Janey for sorting out a deal with Tony and getting the relationshop sorted between MX5 Owners and Tony.
*I'm in no way afillated with Tony Bones - this is simply a thank you forum member "roofless driver" wanted me to pass on.
Janey is a 'star'... an ambassador for the club...... in fact i think there is a hint of a meet at the new WIM centre when it opens this summer for the MX5 club,
...... obviously Janey is involved..... She can cut the ceremomial tape 
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Alignment is a way for the tyre sheds to fleece Joe Public......
Oh....BTW matey you know your inners are all worn? It's cuz of the tracking's bad, right matey....we can sort it for you mate, for £14.99 plus da VAT...mate
Tell 'em to go f*** off...mate
£30 is the average in the UK for front wheel Alignment.....
Mike what i would love people to say if offed Alignment is....... Align the wheels to what?....... 99% of 'crap fit fitters' will not be able to answer.....
Then tell them to........... 'go away'
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As you can appreciate the Supra isnt exactly light,What as a rough guess would be a good sort of set up fro track use,Its sat on tein HE suspension which is pretty hard but im not sure just how hard it should be set to,Any advances??
Remote positions are extremely hard to calculate... for the likes of jap Devil i have mathed the positions and it takes hours......on paper.
My new machine will do the maths for me 'instantly'.....but for know it is wise to develop existing 'proven' positions to suit you and the car.
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Before I joined these forums and Logged onto Tony's Posts, I knew absolutely nothing about car geometry.
I thought if the car was wobbling, for want of a better word, it was due to tracking and/or wheel balance. My eyes are now open wide, and trying to ingest all this information.
Thanks Tony
Tiss the whole point.... this 'gray area' is smothered by the industry.... 'Alignment' is a quick fix (for them)..
Peter you are a perfect example of how 'Geometry' hurts people.... it sounds so complicated.. and it is in certain areas but 'Domestically' it's not!....... having experienced the before and after results you are 'qualified' to advise
...... Welcome to the team ... ok... but your experience is valuable for other members suffering similar experiences. -
Various methods are described to encourage you to resolve tyre wear or handling issues, additionally members in forums are keen to advise but often fall victim to the same miss-information, read carefully and stay ahead of 'alignment the big con'
Tracking/Alignment
Is linear, this measurement shows no concern for any other angle. This form of measurement is the most common in the World and the most damaging.
Angles measured 1
Four wheel Alignment
Uses the rear wheels as a scale to centre the steering rack.... then the front toe..... this is better but is assuming the rear is centred.
Angles measured 2
Four wheel Laser Alignment
Same as above.... be wise!
Geometry/Primary
Will image the exact rear centre line to permit a centred steering wheel.. additionally the front and rear camber positions will be measured. This is the most common form of Geometry and i consider this as 'basic'
Angles measured 8
Full Geometry/primary and Secondary
Is absolute but harder to understand. Few places even with the equipment measure the Secondary angles, these include...
Castor
KPI/SJI/SAI
Scrub radius
included angle
TOOT/Ackerman
Delta curve
and so on
Most areas that involve rapid tyre wear or handling issues need to be read from the 'Secondary' data, even more important if the car has been modified or for diagnostics after an accident.
Angles measured 15+
Not easy reading indeed, millions of pounds change hands every day for 'Alignment', a need to be wise could save you £ssss
One more thing to make the 'blood boil'.. The Primary and secondary Geometry has a customer destination?
1: Primary is the 'dumb' customer version
2: Secondary is with held unless requested and named the 'Technicians version.
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I've heard that BMW'S and Mercs are bad as to set them up properly you have to have weights set out on each seat or alternatively take the family with you and keep them inside the car when the geom is being carried out.
Introduce the family to WIM on your next visit.
Actually your analogy is very true.. BMW MERC AUDI.... all need to be loaded and carry a full fuel tank.... even the rad has to be checked and topped up?.... 'pants' is'nt it!
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I think many of us know about the poor manufacturer's geometry setup on the Lexus IS.......are there any other manufacturers and models whose initial geom is bad?
Yep recent example has been the Mazda MX5... 3000 miles on the clock and the handling was so poor the customer feel the need to have the car checked..... i did and ten angles needed correcting.... needless to say the report and bill is going back to Mazda.....
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The HKS HiperMax RS coilovers I have on the IS are top notch - 30 point adjustable dampening, really tightened up the handling and are very quiet!
Without being rude what was the cost... including fitting?
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Janey your words hit the point exactly......let me add some wood to the fire...
The only point of contact the car has is through the tyres...... well we all know that... but the direction is subject to change (various reasons) these small changes are almost undetectable to the driver until the tyres show visible wear....... then it's off to 'crap fit' for correction...
When you ask 'why' are the tyres wearing 99% of the time the reply will be 'alignment'.......'WRONG'... £30 and 5000 miles later the problem re-appears, to late to lay blame at crap fit.... so off you go again trying to resolve the initial problem.... i have aggressive opinions about this conduct 'here' is why.....
1: The consequence of incorrect alignment could be 'fatal'...do it wrong then the customer could soon be down to the wire totally unaware..... see example
2: Since any car has over 15 individual angles to the wheels, what right does any centre have to set the alignment without testing the positions of the rest?
3: This next one i love?....... if ever you are asked if you want the alignment tested ask them this.....'what are they aligning the wheels to?'...... then sit down.....light a fag.....have a coffee......read a book... and when the fitter has stopped 'dribbling' drive out!.... over his foot is allowed says (book of Bones)
Back to your initial post.... there is no minimum legal requirement for alignment.... any 'no brainer' can set your car.
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Do they not make the bike a bit difficult to corner though
Seriously I'm with you Tony Eagle F1 GSD all round.
Interesting.... the F1 has high praise in the forums, i am a little un-educated simply because i dont deal with them directly.... The Toyo 888 are they for real? they look like their are made of 'plastic'..
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Nekked tyres.......or nekked wimmin
Mike.......you rascal
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Yes Barrie,
Whereas big wheels and slim walled tyres look good, the wheel & tyre combination forms part of the car's suspension-
The bigger the wheel, the less the tyre wall and therfore the car becomes more unstable.
Mike when i read your posts delivering new additions to your cars suspension/ wheels/ tyres/ turbo and 'flux capasitor'... my cat goes and hides..... the maths go through the roof.... and this is why 'Scrub Radius'... all the front end geometry has to land within a target area called the scrub radius the positions deliver the handling expected but this needs to be born...... assuming all is well then the positions can become almost 'matter of fact' and easily transported to other cars assuming the set-up is similar.. this i have done many times in LOC.... same car....same problem.... different person/environment.. simple maths.
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My Roadster originally had Bilstein suspension fitted, but was tired, worn & knocking
Most MX5/Roadster owners go for the KYB/AGX set up, but I deciede to go a different route.
The Bilsteins were changed for the Spax PSX 28pt adjustable set up (lowering 20-40mm)
(Ideally I would have liked to have D2 Coilovers fitted by was unable to justify the use & cost
)I have found with the set up now (shocks set at 13 'clicks') that the car is far more 'planted' and cornering is improved, and with the adjustability I can set it for the type of driving (road/track/drift) I am doing.
Fitting was relatively easy although the springs fit on what looks upside down to the eye (writing wrong way up) and the tech guys at Spax were unable to tell me which way up they went !!
The only disapointment with the Spax's is that although the lowering was supposed to be -20 to 40mm the car now sits slightly higher that it did with the original set up.
Hi Janey
.... the height reads strange?.... i would expect what it reads on the box?.... -
Tyre type, make and model is personal......what made you decide to wear the 'shoes' you have now?
I have a personal preference for Goodyear GSD F1
and for good reasons.....? -
Taking the modification market by the horns, what do you have?... and why?
It would be easy to promote a particular manufacturer and display all the benefits offered in the brochure, but in the real world why?.... was it
1:- Price
2:- Development
3:- Installation
Also was there any issues remaining with the geometry that were 'not' explained in advance?
Gap required between wheel and arch.
in General Problems / Discussions
Posted
Please do!