Tony
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Posts posted by Tony
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Hi Tony,
I have no problems contacting the Center on Monday, They were very polite and helpful. And as we all know mistakes do happen.
If you dont mind i will mention that i have discussed this with you and you have advised I need a re-align with the correct wheel diameter. (Do they need to know anything else)?
I will let you know, if i have any problems but i am sure everyhting will be fine.
Many Thanks
Feel free to mention wim and our conversation, Paul ownes the centre if possible talk to him. This is a simple operator error but damaging if not addressed.
Paul has my number but if you have any immediate needs contact me at work 01923 234666 and i will assist!
Hi Tony,
I spoke to paul this morning, who said that although the printout said 14" the machine will have been set to 18". Is this possible?
thanks
Chris
Unlikely.... since the machine did not hold the data for your car on disc, then the data would have been input as 'missing'.... the machine then will set to default and require the cars dimensions as mentioned before.... 14" is the default......... if the printout displays 'before and after' measurements then i feel this is based on the visible wheel diameter...
Tony
Thanks for the reply,
The printout displays Diagnosis and Adjustment (before and after) but no nominal values (because the settings were not on file I presume) The mesurements were not way out +2.9 on LF +0.3 on RF adjusted to +70 on each (at my request)
rears were -2.5 RR and -0.30 LR adjusted to +1 on each
Paul did say that the machine automatically will detect the wheel size, and adjust accordingly, I have two new front tires that he is going to fit for me on Wednesday.
Should I demand a re-alignment? I dont want to cause a fuss, as he has been helpful. And i need a reliable alignment guy!
Would it be possible for you to give him a bell tomorrow, and let me know what he said?
Many thanks
Chris
I will contact Paul and conclude this.... the machine in question i have never used so the 'matter of fact' it's wrong or it's ok i cannot in truth comment on, and this makes me nervous, for the customers sake i have to argue it's wrong no matter who set it!
Don't worry it will be sorted!
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Each week i will display an image to remind members why we are here and what we are trying to avoid.
Car :- Lexus IS200
Position:- NSF
Size:- 215-45/17
Tyres mileage:- 1500
Reason:- Toe at 30mm Negative
Explanation
The car was second hand bought from a main Dealer.... the model was new to the owner but he felt something was wrong with the handling, several times the car was returned to the Dealer for inspection each time the report said there is nothing wrong with the car, the owner insisted for a independent inspection which was granted, the findings all born from a test drive suggested the cars Geometry was tested due to the cars 'loose' feeling and over-steer.... unfortunately the Dealer ignored these suggestions.
Soon after on the 'Motorway' a distressing noise forced the owner to the hard shoulder, with the front wheels on a lock he saw this....
In actual fact both front tyres were in this condition!
The distressed owner pursued legal compensation based on the Dealers ignorance for placing him in a life threatening position, he was advised 'NOT' to pursue the claim because the tyres did not 'blow out' so the claim would be based on 'hear say' in addition the Dealer offered to refund all expenses.
In view of these extreme circumstance's i asked the Police how they would deal with this person if stopped on the road with the tyres in the condition displayed. Despite the circumstance's evolving the owners position the Police said they would deal with the matter in the same fashion as any other tyre related offence, ultimately it's the drivers responsibility to ensure the tyres are legal........ not the Dealers!
Any comments or your own images are welcomed.
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Hi Tony,
I have no problems contacting the Center on Monday, They were very polite and helpful. And as we all know mistakes do happen.
If you dont mind i will mention that i have discussed this with you and you have advised I need a re-align with the correct wheel diameter. (Do they need to know anything else)?
I will let you know, if i have any problems but i am sure everyhting will be fine.
Many Thanks
Feel free to mention wim and our conversation, Paul ownes the centre if possible talk to him. This is a simple operator error but damaging if not addressed.
Paul has my number but if you have any immediate needs contact me at work 01923 234666 and i will assist!
Hi Tony,
I spoke to paul this morning, who said that although the printout said 14" the machine will have been set to 18". Is this possible?
thanks
Chris
Unlikely.... since the machine did not hold the data for your car on disc, then the data would have been input as 'missing'.... the machine then will set to default and require the cars dimensions as mentioned before.... 14" is the default......... if the printout displays 'before and after' measurements then i feel this is based on the visible wheel diameter...
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Exactly....attitude is the name of the game. Be nice to Plod and he won't book ya. Behave like an a$$hole and get youself pinched
Wise words indeed!............ the youth of today i feel cannot communicate unless it's sprayed on a wall... cannot enjoy themselves unless dribbling Fosters Larger followed by a pizza base on the pavement, and cannot drive unless 'uninsured'
.......... were did it go wrong? -
ive had cops in front of me, behind me and allll around me, and none have said a dickie, even when tugging me for spirited driving...
You have to admit this must be luck! any copper would make a charge if they noticed the 'sticky'
yeh sure there must be some luck in it, but also i think its the way you act before and after the tug,, if your being a muppet then yeh the plod could well get the ar se with you..
I would seem that most illegal modifications are ignored by the law unless prompted.....personally i feel this 'give and take' subliminal culture is healthy... the Police are aware of the illegal modifications as is the driver... this exposure without trial communicates Police/Owner cohabitation... until the 'boy racer' opens his mouth
then it's 'points time'............ rightly so! -
Ace, well I am back home now tyres seem better also... thanks for the info Tony
no problem........ stay wise though, in the wet even new shoes will slip, re-define your expectations!
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The 'RFT' concept does have a point regarding safety and hazard, but the evolution belays a few convenient areas not on public display.........so in true wim fashion........
Principle
The RFT can resist and react to most forms of deflation, sudden or progressive and permit the driver to continue with the journey regardless of the deflation, valuable for safety and it assures the owner that nothing would deny the destination other than fuel or the M25.
Evolution
The concept has been realised over many years, Dunlop suggested the 'Denovo' which was a tyre locked between a split rim, this wheel had no internal recess that allowed the tyre to 'off-set' and detach from the rim, this also involved internal canisters that would be crushed and released a gel to keep the tyre cool... at the time the concept was very expensive and ultimately failed, apart from cost the fundamental flaw was if the tyre deflates then it was 'scrap'
Following this commercial failure Dunlop abandoned the concept of the 'split rim' and introduced the 'Demlock' tyre, this carried the same concept and placed the gel in the tyre without the canisters..... a new evolution of wheel was designed to support this but very costly... in fact Jaguar was the main recipient and offered this safety factor deep within the sales campaign... again this failed.. fundamentally for the same reason if the tyre deflates it is 'scrap'.
Then things went quiet..........
Very quiet!
With the birth of the new Mini One/Cooper in 01 Pirelli answered the run flat question again with the 'PAX' design of tyre and rim, basically the rim has internal shoes that supports the tyre and simply replaces the air after deflation... but a new problem was born?.... not only was the tyre scrap after deflation but now only the main dealer had sufficient machinery to remove/ replace the tyre, in time ultimately i feel this will also fail.
Today's evolutions expand on past examples, now the RFT will fit any rim and most shops should be able to fit/ remove the tyre.... but something is missing?..... where is the gel.... where are the internal shoes.... what keeps the tyre cool once deflated?
Construction
The evolution is evident, make the tyre wall armoured and it will suspend the car.....
So they did...... the new Goodyear and Bridgestone are now OE within BMW and associated marques, Pirelli have taken a back seat for now..... but there is still a problem?
The tyres needs to communicate with the car directly via internal censors or externally via the ABS, visible activation on the dash will need to be re-set/ turned off by the dealer, this i feel angry about! (another topic maybe)
A warning
If you have RFT then it's a done deal... due to the armoured construction of the tyre the suspension has been 'down graded' to accomendate the tyre, you cannot deviate from the set-up unless the suspension is also modified, so in essence the tyre/ suspension is a package and must be considered as final.
Oh and to add insult even the new variations of 'run flat tyre' once deflated is 'SCRAP'
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Yep I think it is.. I am getting less drift action after just 30 miles, so it is looking better
Good..... hence the Lexus CZ compound....but.still take a little time to bed them in!
I have a 300 mile drive tomorrow, will that be enough ?
Indeed it will
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Good question..... first remember tyre pressures displayed by the manufacturer should be viewed as suggestions... within reason! move away from stock then you become the judge and jury. In answer to your question, there is a need to understand first so i question you this....
All cars display different pressures according to speed and load, do you know why?
Note: this method of reply is not an attempt to belittle you, it's designed to make you think!
Is it to do with the tempratures generated by the tyres and the weight there have to hold up?
As i said to Dan... sorry to answer a question with a question but a direct reply without making anyone think is of little value.... 'i feel'.
As a rule the wider tyre holds a higher pressure, this is an attempt to reduce the contact patch and keep the tyre cool, enivitably the tyre will become hot and then achieve the actual desired manufactured pressure, so the cold suggested (fictitious) 30psi would acquire the expected 36psi when warm.
Then add speed and load to the possibilities then another set of figures are born......
If the journey involves the Motorway and additional load the the manufacturer suggests an even higher starting pressure, again this is an attempt to keep the tyre cool by reducing the contact patch.... eventually all the calculations suggest an equilibrium but this is not an exacting art.
So what to make of all this?........... i recommend initially be guided by the manufacturer, moniteur the wear and apply your own pressure in reply to any adverse wear, within reason!
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Am I right in thinking that the damping should be less at the front and more at the rear and by stiffening the front it will start to turn in faster but loose cornering grip?
Suspension experts where are you!.............
Weight transfer and roll centre are very active as i am sure you are aware.... to me geometrically i would want the reactive balance to be near to 55/45 f/r ......... the car will need to be loose at the rear comparitivly to encourage over-steer from a stable geo, so basically you would depend on the application of thrust during 'turn on and out' with negative rear transfer, the diagonal resistance negative = 10% at the front, the actual lbs i have no idea... but i would assume high?
In reality we have two topics here (suspension and Geometry) these really should be investigated independently, a marriage between the two for solution in any one thread is to complicated to be of real value.
Split the topic
1: Suspension: setting/ rate/ road/ race
2: Geometry : positions/ forces/ reactions/ development
Each one is a 'stand alone' debate and will offer a better overview.
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Yep I think it is.. I am getting less drift action after just 30 miles, so it is looking better
Good..... hence the Lexus CZ compound....but.still take a little time to bed them in!
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Yes, looks and handling... it realy depends on what you use the car for, I wish I had something which I could switch to nutter mode and then to sunday driver mode
Categorise...... i would seem 'lowering' generates an irritating itch... a kind of initial step into poo.... but nevertheless desirable... 'interesting!'
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Im after 4 new tyres Proxe's TI-R 225/35/18 anyone know where the best place to get from ?
Try some searches on line with BC and mytyre and display what you find..... after that allow interests to compete here..........
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I would have to say the best mod for me so far is the induction kit, problem is it makes you want to hoof it around a lot more as the noise is adictive...
worst... hmm not sure. Maybe lowering it was not the best move, insurance have a field day with it and the ride is a little harsh (relative to the normal lex lux) on some road surfaces...
'Lowering' seems to be the norm with all cars, i wonder why so many people feel the need, is it purely ascetic?
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Hi Tony,
I have no problems contacting the Center on Monday, They were very polite and helpful. And as we all know mistakes do happen.
If you dont mind i will mention that i have discussed this with you and you have advised I need a re-align with the correct wheel diameter. (Do they need to know anything else)?
I will let you know, if i have any problems but i am sure everyhting will be fine.
Many Thanks
Feel free to mention wim and our conversation, Paul ownes the centre if possible talk to him. This is a simple operator error but damaging if not addressed.
Paul has my number but if you have any immediate needs contact me at work 01923 234666 and i will assist!
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Got two new ones on teh rear this morning, fishtailing it all over the place, how long till they scuff enough to start gripping? They're Bridgestone Protenzas on my Lex IS300 ..
Any idea of number of miles?
They will need a few hundred miles?...... for any tyre to grip (excluding wet dispersal) the rubber needs to adopt a texture like suede..... it is for this reason some cars have specific models of tyre were the initial (new) tread is extremely soft, maybe a depth of 1mm, after that the compound becomes harder.
Oddly enough the Bridgestone is one of these...... is the compound 'CZ'
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Hi,
I have just had an alignment done using a Pro-Align SPACE 800, I gave the mechanic the required specs for the vehicle (350z) as the machine did not have the car in its database.
After getting my printout i have noticed that the Rim Diam is down as 14" where as my car has 18" wheels
Will this make a difference to the measurements taken? all readings on the sheet are in degrees and minutes, apart from the toe which is in mm.
Thanks
MrRoper
Yes it will... All machines require and image of the car in 3D so that the cameras can place themselves in a Horizontal, Longitudinal and Vertical plane, the wheel Diameter, wheel width and track form this image.
In short the Geometry and any corrections were worthless................ sorry.
Hi Tony,
Thanks for the reply, the unit seemed to be just a 4 wheel laser alignment system, would this still make a difference, as the arms with the lasers on didnt seem adjustable (Sorry about my limited knowlede on the whole alignment can of worms!)
This alignment was done at one of the trusted center`s on your site, I pressume i can call them and ask them to realign with the correct wheel diameter FOC?
Are the readings likely to be out by much? IS the car still ok to drive?
Thanks
Chris
Please don't ever feel the need to apologize when the talk is Geometry.... this forum is designed explicitly for people like yourself to ask questions 'live'.
The 350z has a 'stand alone' new Geometry..... the positions are not born from previous 'proven' examples, unfortunately things have not gone swimmingly...for this reason the data has been subject to change and limited in availability......The centre in question phoned me today for your cars data since this was not available to them (fair play) nevertheless the operator has made a mistake and the results void.
In the short term the car is safe to drive since the incorrect positions should be symmetrical, in the long term the tyres will wear!
If you feel unhappy about contacting the centre i will do it for you.... in this event can you pm me your name, the cars index and a contact number.
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Hi,
I have just had an alignment done using a Pro-Align SPACE 800, I gave the mechanic the required specs for the vehicle (350z) as the machine did not have the car in its database.
After getting my printout i have noticed that the Rim Diam is down as 14" where as my car has 18" wheels
Will this make a difference to the measurements taken? all readings on the sheet are in degrees and minutes, apart from the toe which is in mm.
Thanks
MrRoper
Yes it will... All machines require and image of the car in 3D so that the cameras can place themselves in a Horizontal, Longitudinal and Vertical plane, the wheel Diameter, wheel width and track form this image.
In short the Geometry and any corrections were worthless................ sorry.
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Slightly Off Topic Tony, but have you got the equipment at STS yet to do cars that the cameras wont hang on?
Good question............no!
Up front and honest wim has out grown everything including STS..... so to continue in the fashion that i image for the future i will need to set-up on my own.
My new machine to be..... is top cat!.... it does all the maths measures 70% more and is even voice activated, so the 'low club' will not be a problem!
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Hard to say what's the best modification..... I'd have to say all of them.. as they make the car the way I want it to be:D
Hard to say the worst modification....I'd have to say probably the first one..if not all of them..as one leads to another and its never ending....If i'd never have started I'd be alot richer
So pretty much 'hard'
...... # 1 what was it?I think it was an arm rest, followed closely by a dash tray..
Arm rest around 8 hp
Dash tray around 2 hp.. not fast enough so I sold it
what are you like! -
Hard to say what's the best modification..... I'd have to say all of them.. as they make the car the way I want it to be:D
Hard to say the worst modification....I'd have to say probably the first one..if not all of them..as one leads to another and its never ending....If i'd never have started I'd be alot richer
So pretty much 'hard'
...... # 1 what was it? -
When wim was built some two years ago i left the site open to asses what areas in the UK market (Domestic) was in distress so i could evaluate were and why...... surprisingly the main Dealers showed very little understanding toward Geometry.....
For Education and example would you expose the experiences you have had that lead you online to seek resolve.
Oh.... no places or names.....please!
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licence plate caused me greif with the MOT,, was easerly sorted by sticking on the proper ones on top...
de cats can be a problem with emmissions but just takes a good old warm up to sort..
Any probs with the law....concerning the suspect plates
ive had cops in front of me, behind me and allll around me, and none have said a dickie, even when tugging me for spirited driving...
You have to admit this must be luck! any copper would make a charge if they noticed the 'sticky'
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Any modifications reflect some form of desire, for you what as the best and why, if things didn't work out what went wrong..... be honest as this may 'persuade or dismiss' someones future intentions......
Horror of the week - 10/04/06
in Horror Of The Week
Posted
That image is why wim exists, this example was not due to neglect just miss-understanding, the Dealer failed to recognize the problem... and the Police would commit to their duty regardless of how it evolved, the wim area is to make this sort of thing 'public' and act as a warning.